Brexit - the next steps

[Roses]

Boris has lost his working majority as a Tory MP has defected to the Lib Dems.

[Nearly Sane]

Boris has lost his working majority as a Tory MP has defected to the Lib Dems.

Weirdly other than the symbolism, that isn't really that significant at the moment. Strange times.

[Roses]

Strange times indeed.

[jeremyp]

Indeed and rightly so, but would you claim that those who voted Labour when he was leader voted to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis?

Let's be clear because it isn't clear from my original question. I'm asking the you that exists now how you would have voted in the 2016 election with the knowledge you have now.

[Harrowby Hall]

Boris has lost his working majority as a Tory MP has defected to the Lib Dems.

Defected seems such a negative way of describing this courageous and positive action.

[Nearly Sane]

First PM to lose their first vote since Pitt the Younger apparently.

[Nearly Sane]

From BBC latest


Brexit dominates the papers - with some headlines more catchy than others. Can you work out which newspapers have the following headlines?

"Now the MPs take control""Johnson loses control""Johnson demands election""Boris loses control""Now you decide, Britain""Humilation for Johnson as Tory rebels turn against him""Over to you, Britain""Johnson's Brexit strategy in ruins as anti-no deal MPs inflict defeat""Parliament surrenders to the EU""PM loses historic vote"And finally (unrelated to Brexit....) "WOR

[Roses]

Defected seems such a negative way of describing this courageous and positive action.

I didn't mean it that way, GOOD FOR THEM!

[Spud]

The 21 rebels have had the whip removed, and just to add to the chaos, nobody has explained what having the whip removed actually means!

[Nearly Sane]

This is good

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00082dd

[jeremyp]

Defected seems such a negative way of describing this courageous and positive action.

Almost the best bit was he literally crossed the floor and he did it while BoJo was speaking at the dispatch box

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/sep/03/tory-mp-phillip-lee-defects-to-lib-dems-midway-through-johnson-speech-video

[jeremyp]

The 21 rebels have had the whip removed, and just to add to the chaos, nobody has explained what having the whip removed actually means!

It means that they are no longer considered to be Conservative MPs. It also means they will be (have been?) expelled from the party and will not be allowed to stand as official Conservative MPs at the next general election. Their careers are over and the leadership no longer has any influence over them. I don't think BoJo has thought through what that means in terms of the current parliament.

[Nearly Sane]

It means that they are no longer considered to be Conservative MPs. It also means they will be (have been?) expelled from the party and will not be allowed to stand as official Conservative MPs at the next general election. Their careers are over and the leadership no longer has any influence over them. I don't think BoJo has thought through what that means in terms of the current parliament.

I don't think that the withdrawal of the whip leads to automatic suspension from the party, just the parliamentary one, and you can be readmitted to it - see Charlie Elphicke who had it withdrawn, re-in instated and is currently withdrawn again


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Elphicke

[Spud]

I had visions of Boris flogging a dead horse and thought maybe it was him that should have the whip withdrawn.
As I don't understand the phrase properly I'll have to Google it.

[Nearly Sane]

I had visions of Boris flogging a dead horse and thought maybe it was him that should have the whip withdrawn.
As I don't understand the phrase properly I'll have to Google it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49578000

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently Michael Forsyth has started speaking in the Lords and intends to filibuster by speaking toll 10:01 tomorrow night.

[Outrider]

He's likely to be out of luck - the debate in the Lords this afternoon is to establish clear limits on the discussion on each amendment that's brought before the house.  At last count I think there were about 90, so it could well be a marathon couple of sessions, but they should still be able to clear it before democracy is cancelled next week.

That, of course, is if the Bill passes it's two readings in the Commons this evening...

O.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Worth noting too that some of the tory MPs who have had the whip removed are considering standing as independent candidates in the coming GE. Some of them command considerable loyalty in their constituencies whereas the place men and women Bozo will parachute in will have none, so even if the independents didn't win they could well split the tory votes and allow others in.

Of course when they realise this and the constituencies concerned have tory MPs with small majorities, the whip could well mysteriously be restored to them.     

[Udayana]

Apparently Michael Forsyth has started speaking in the Lords and intends to filibuster by speaking toll 10:01 tomorrow night.

He was on the World at One ... a first class prat. (Name calling seems to have come back in with Boris)

[Stranger]

The Purge! (NSFW)

[jeremyp]

Apparently Michael Forsyth has started speaking in the Lords and intends to filibuster by speaking toll 10:01 tomorrow night.

So much for democracy.

It strikes me as somewhat ironic that it is the Brexiteers doing everything in their power to subvert the parliamentary democracy they think claim they are defending.

[Aruntraveller]

Well the only positive thing I've learned from this evenings shenanigans is that I think I am a little bit in love with Jess Phillips.

[Nearly Sane]

Some discussion that the SNP might vote for an election in October after the no no deal law is passed. I do hope that is not the case.

Other possibilities, revoking the Fixed Term Parliament Act, or the govt holding a vote of no confidence in itself.

[Gordon]

It seems the HoL will now play ball and that the bill requiring an A50 is extended past Oct 31st if there is no new deal will pass, which would meet what Corbyn said was needed for Labour to support a GE - presumably this is what Johnson now wants, since if he wins a GE her can repeal and still achieve a no deal exit 'do or die' on Oct 31st.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/05/brexit-lords-agree-to-push-through-bill-preventing-no-deal-by-end-of-friday

Hopefully, and I know the SNP are keen for a GE asap, the opposition parties will tell Johnson to come back from the EU in mid-October first with his mythical new deal first, or not, and if he can't then they'll agree to a GE, which means Johnson misses his target date - that is what I would do - the Tories sudden desperation for a GE by mid-October needs to be denied, since doing so denies them their only remaining way of having a no-deal exit on 31st October.

Since MPs didn't support Johnson's motion for a GE under the FTPA last night I'd imagine they'd resist repealing the FTPA, but of course Johnson could ensure the Tories lose a confidence vote - but that comes with the risk that in the current climate he could open the door to an alternative government without a GE happening, since that too would deny Johnson his 31st Oct no-deal exit.
 

[Nearly Sane]

Since MPs didn't support Johnson's motion for a GE under the FTPA last night I'd imagine they'd resist repealing the FTPA, but of course Johnson could ensure the Tories lose a confidence vote - but that comes with the risk that in the current climate he could open the door to an alternative government without a GE happening, since that too would deny Johnson his 31st Oct no-deal exit.

The difference with revoking the FTPA is that it only needs a simple majority, not the 2/3s of the seats majority that is in the FTPA.

The issue for Johnson with the VoNC is that it then gives the possibility of PM Corbyn if that could be agreed in 14 days, it also means that th election will be tight against the 31st October deadline.