Brexit - the next steps

[Stranger]

Moderator
 As Stranger's post has a link to a something that includes all of ippy's cut and paste, albeit a critique of it,  we are leaving that post up.

The first link also contains links to some of the sources, for example:

Is it the UK’s decision of not joining the euro zone and keep the pound as its independent currency?

IF YOU STAY IN THE EU THERE ARE KNOWN OUTCOMES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN AGREED AS TRUE BY ALL SIDES

[Nearly Sane]

Mmm...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49909309

[Harrowby Hall]

I had already seen the long list of "outcomes" from the Lisbon Treaty on Facebook. I now see that it originated on Quora - a site for anyone with an opinion (any opinion) to express it.

Looking at the list, the first thing that jumped out at me was the apparent belief that the London Stock Exchange is some kind of official body which is a part of the "government" process and can therefore be transferred at the EU's will to Frankfurt. The Stock Exchange is a limited company, it is owned by shareholders not the state and is not subject to any bureaucratic administrative control. I dare say that if I examined other aspects of the list they, too, would also lack any credibility.

[jeremyp]

In your post you seem to want to plant this on me: 'Why don't you try reading your own posts. You know: the ones where you bemoan immigration and think it's OK to tell foreigners they should go home'.

It's not worth trying to deny these lines of yours, they have nothing to do with me and the rest of your post, so much of it amounts to juggling with semantics what would be the point of trying to answer?

Regards, ippy.

Grow a pair, coward.

[jeremyp]

With those %'s we'd get a Con govt. with a large majority - which would confirm a no-deal brexit.

I don't think that necessarily follows. I think it's more likely to be a repeat of what we've got now.

[jeremyp]

Mmm...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49909309

Mmm... indeed. NI would be in the single market but the rest of the UK not? How would that work?

[Udayana]

I don't think that necessarily follows. I think it's more likely to be a repeat of what we've got now.

They will have to go into an election with a plan - either an agreed deal or no-deal if they continue in their effort to out-brexit Farage.

[ippy]

Perhaps you should have at least done some basic fact checking before even considering passing it on? Much of it is obvious nonsense and it took me all of a minute to find out that most of it is:

There’s a lot wrong with this viral list about the Lisbon Treaty

Factcheck 26 questions on EU

If you're basing your views on this sort of bullshit, perhaps you should think again.

I passed it on to give the remainers that post here something to get their teeth into, a sort of clay pidgin, and particularly pointed out that I was only passing it on without making a comment about it without giving a view of my thinking on or about the content of its text.

I suspected that it may have not been 100% correct and some of it more than likely could have been absolutely correct.   

I still have not got where it came from other than it might have something to do with someone named Gary Turnbull, I'm not very good at remembering names and I can't recall ever hearing of him and couldn't find anything very helpful via Mr Google, oh yes it may have something to do with facebook,I've never joined so was unable to look there. 

Regards to all, ippy.

[ippy]

Grow a pair, coward.

Where in the forum rules does it state that I have to argue with anyone if I don't feel so inclined?

It wouldn't matter whatever I was to write in favour of leave you'd not want to concede anything, likewise myself, circular ad infinitum.

Find you own clay pidgin shoot, why should I be supplying you?

Regards, ippy.

[bluehillside Retd.]

ippy,

"pidgin" = pigeon. Just saying.

[jeremyp]

Where in the forum rules does it state that I have to argue with anyone if I don't feel so inclined?

It wouldn't matter whatever I was to write in favour of leave you'd not want to concede anything, likewise myself, circular ad infinitum.

Grow a pair, coward.

Find you own clay pidgin shoot, why should I be supplying you?

Regards, ippy.

You voted for Brexit. I want to know why you decided to strip my rights from me.

[Nearly Sane]

Mmm... indeed. NI would be in the single market but the rest of the UK not? How would that work?

Not a clue, especially as 'Arlene Foster, leader of Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party, supported the plan, saying it would allow Northern Ireland to leave the customs union and single market at the same time as the rest of the UK.'

[Nearly Sane]

European Parlisment Says No


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-latest-news-parliament-proposal-meps-reject-a9138346.html

[Anchorman]

European Parlisment Says No


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-latest-news-parliament-proposal-meps-reject-a9138346.html

   




Can you blame them?

[jeremyp]

European Parlisment Says No


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-latest-news-parliament-proposal-meps-reject-a9138346.html

Also, would get a veto from the RoI judging by what their government said.

I wonder how BoJo is enjoying his dream job.

[Udayana]

Not a clue, especially as 'Arlene Foster, leader of Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party, supported the plan, saying it would allow Northern Ireland to leave the customs union and single market at the same time as the rest of the UK.'

The 4-yearly consent/veto Stormont would have under the "deal" is being sold as an opt out for NI if the regulations diverge but Foster is seeing it as an "opt-in for another 4 years". One of the reasons why this deal can't fly.

[Gordon]

Blog reports say that the European Parliament view it as a non-starter, and a contrived one given the advice to Tory MPs to portray the EU as 'crazy' - it wouldn't surprise me that Johnson wants the EU to reject so that he can portray them as the baddies.

[bluehillside Retd.]

It feels to me as though we're finally coming to the point at which the BS of the leave campaign and reality will collide. The Irish land border that was so airily hand-waved away back in 2016 ("technology will provide the solution", "frictionless traffic" etc) was always going to be the Waterloo of the liars and ignoramuses and so, inevitably, it has proved. Of course it'll all be the fault of those nasty Europeans even though they've been consistent from day one, and even though the backstop was a concession they gave to the UK at our request but hey, Boris will never place the blame where it deserves to be - with himself and the other chancers - and so the pantomime villain will do instead.   

Cock-eyed optimist that I am I still think that, having tried everything else and failed, we'll eventually have a second referendum and enough people will have seen the light by then to vote remain but no, I'm not putting any money on it.     

[Roses]

It feels to me as though we're finally coming to the point at which the BS of the leave campaign and reality will collide. The Irish land border that was so airily hand-waved away back in 2016 ("technology will provide the solution", "frictionless traffic" etc) was always going to be the Waterloo of the liars and ignoramuses and so, inevitably, it has proved. Of course it'll all be the fault of those nasty Europeans even though they've been consistent from day one, and even though the backstop was a concession they gave to the UK at our request but hey, Boris will never place the blame where it deserves to be - with himself and the other chancers - and so the pantomime villain will do instead.   

Cock-eyed optimist that I am I still think that, having tried everything else and failed, we'll eventually have a second referendum and enough people will have seen the light by then to vote remain but no, I'm not putting any money on it.   

I wish, but like you I'm not putting any money on it.

[Gordon]

That the likes of Cash and Francios are reportedly positive about Johnson's plan should be enough to conclude it is a nonsense, and that it envisages the DUP having a future key role adds another reason for concern.

The ad pop of 'the people' needs to be checked since the electorate aren't wholly stupid, and having been exposed to information regarding the realities of Brexit it may be that sufficient numbers may have a different view now.

[ippy]

ippy,

"pidgin" = pigeon. Just saying.

Totally useless with spelling always have been even learning parrot fashion doesn't give me any reliability, be more surprised when I get through a post without a spelling mistake, I'd love to get on top of spelling truth is I'm 77 now and still unable to do so, what do you think?

Regards, ippy.

[Stranger]

Cock-eyed optimist that I am I still think that, having tried everything else and failed, we'll eventually have a second referendum and enough people will have seen the light by then to vote remain but no, I'm not putting any money on it.   

You're wise not to put money on a another referendum but a remain result now wouldn't even need anybody to have changed their minds: In January 2019 Britain will officially switch from a pro-Brexit to an anti-Brexit country, and this is how we know.

[ippy]

Grow a pair, coward.

You voted for Brexit. I want to know why you decided to strip my rights from me.

What's the trouble jp someone, anyone to hit out at and I'm not playing?

I voted leave, leave won the day and you and yours can't take it, now you want to strip my rights from me.

It is and always was an impasse, it's not an area where it would be remotely  feasible to toss a coin, so the next best thing was to have a referendum.

The only thing I could possibly write to you to make my viewpoint agreeable to you would be something like, 'Yes jp you were right to vote remain and I can't think whatever it was that made me think leave was the right thing for the UK's future', except I don't think remaining in the EU is the right thing for the long term future of the UK----Referendum!!

All it means jp, is we don't agree on this issue and are very unlikely to do so anytime and very little else, I don't think you're a coward or have any other particular negative thoughts about you only that I think you've got it wrong on this one.

Regards, ippy.

[ProfessorDavey]

So Rory the Tory isn't a Tory anymore and will stand as an independent in the London mayoral election. Sadiq Khan will be pleased.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49931937

[jeremyp]

What's the trouble jp someone, anyone to hit out at and I'm not playing?

You're a coward. That's all we need to know.

I voted leave, leave won the day and you and yours can't take it, now you want to strip my rights from me.

You can leave the EU any time you like. Emmigrate. You will not lose any rights by us staying in the EU.

It is and always was an impasse, it's not an area where it would be remotely  feasible to toss a coin, so the next best thing was to have a referendum.

I can list off several reasons why being in the EU is good. You can't tell us any reasons why it is bad and yet you are the one getting their way.

All it means jp, is we don't agree on this issue and are very unlikely to do so anytime and very little else, I don't think you're a coward or have any other particular negative thoughts about you only that I think you've got it wrong on this one.

I wouldn't think you're a coward for disagreeing with me. I think you are a coward for refusing to tell us why you disagree with me.