Brexit - the next steps

[wigginhall]

Yes, people often cite the Guardian as it is free, ditto BBC.   Times and Telegraph have a paywall, and are right wing.  The Mail is free,  ha ha.

[ippy]

Yes, people often cite the Guardian as it is free, ditto BBC.   Times and Telegraph have a paywall, and are right wing.  The Mail is free,  ha ha.

The Guardian, the BBC, cheep?

Regards, ippy.

[Aruntraveller]

The Guardian, the BBC, cheep?

Regards, ippy.

Not cheap, just different business models.

[jeremyp]

I couldn't help noting the how the various links posted on this thread were for either the Guardian or the BBC so I thought I'd have a rough count up and not bother with those links that counted for ten or less, the independent newspaper was the only newspaper that was referred to more than ten times it was referred to twenty times in fact.

Surprisingly, the Guardian and the BBC took pride of place with approximately 240 links between them the BBC 140 links, ten links for The New Statesman, The spectator five, Newsthump nine, The Times five, politics.co.uk six, tinyurl.com seven, The telegraph four, The Daily Mail one, The Express three, The Daily Mirror six, nytimes.com three.

Funnily enough I know what I think I'm wondering about the thoughts of others about these figures, figures that I'll entirely accept may well be in the region of three or four percent out due to it being a bit of a marathon task.

Regards to all, ippy.

I couldn't help noticing that you refuse to tell us what the benefits of Brexit will be. I am pretty sure it's because you know there aren't any beyond satisfying your little Englander craving.

[ippy]

I couldn't help noticing that you refuse to tell us what the benefits of Brexit will be. I am pretty sure it's because you know there aren't any beyond satisfying your little Englander craving.

I didn't think I'm accountable to anyone in particular j p, something else I couldn't help noticing.

Don't forget to put down your copy of the Guardian and make sure you enjoy the BBC Newsnight programme later on tonight.

Regards, ippy.

[ippy]

Not cheap, just different business models.

Trent you're saying that their business model aim/direction is selling it cheep then?

Regards, ippy.

[Aruntraveller]

Trent you're saying that their business model aim/direction is selling it cheep then?

Regards, ippy.

Stop pretending to be clever.

[ippy]

Stop pretending to be clever.

I dislike the remain point of view not necessarily the people that hold that point of view nor do I see remainers as idiots and it's not my aim to denigrate any individual about this on this forum.

Regards, ippy.

[jeremyp]

I dislike the remain point of view not necessarily the people that hold that point of view nor do I see remainers as idiots and it's not my aim to denigrate any individual about this on this forum.

Regards, ippy.

Well why don't you pay remainers some respect and tell us what it is that makes all the Brexit trouble worth enduring?

[Roses]

Well why don't you pay remainers some respect and tell us what it is that makes all the Brexit trouble worth enduring?

I am awaiting his response with baited breath.

[ippy]

Well why don't you pay remainers some respect and tell us what it is that makes all the Brexit trouble worth enduring?

There's no harm asking but I will repeat that sovereignty on its own is enough reason for me to want to leave the EU and immigration, nothing to do with who we have here, it's all about the numbers for me, I think we have taken in far too many people, I won't be altering my views on these two reasons amongst others.

Pull my two points of view to bits as much as you like I won't be joining in.

It looks like voting Conservative in my area is is the best place for me to place my vote that will hopefully enable the UK to leave the EU so on that basis alone I'll be voting for them, not that I have much in common with them but, probably like yourself somewhat visa versa, leaving the EU takes precedence over my general political point of view.

Regards, ippy.         

 

[Christine]

There's no harm asking but I will repeat that sovereignty on its own is enough reason for me to want to leave the EU and immigration, nothing to do with who we have here, it's all about the numbers for me, I think we have taken in far too many people, I won't be altering my views on these two reasons amongst others.

Pull my two points of view to bits as much as you like I won't be joining in.

It looks like voting Conservative in my area is is the best place for me to place my vote that will hopefully enable the UK to leave the EU so on that basis alone I'll be voting for them, not that I have much in common with them but, probably like yourself somewhat visa versa, leaving the EU takes precedence over my general political point of view.

Regards, ippy.         

 

In order to avoid a second, informed, vote on something you think is so obviously good for the country that you only need two words to justify your support, you'll vote for a party that elected a leader who talks of "watermelon smiles" and "picaninny" children.  The party of the "hostile environment". That made a choice to implement austerity for the not-rich while funnelling additional billions of national debt into the pockets of the very and extremely wealthy.  I'm not surprised you don't engage with arguments.  You've been, to use your own word, indoctrinated. 

[SteveH]

I am awaiting his response with baited breath.

"Bated".

[Roses]

As I have said before the those who are desperate for us to leave the EU, might not be so joyful if they discover the UK is much worse off than it was before we left. Already there are concerns that due to the idea of Brexit some medications are harder to get hold of, and some EU nationals who help to man the hospitals are leaving to go back home. The NHS is in a bad enough state as it is without make it any worse.

[Walter]

In order to avoid a second, informed, vote on something you think is so obviously good for the country that you only need two words to justify your support, you'll vote for a party that elected a leader who talks of "watermelon smiles" and "picaninny" children.  The party of the "hostile environment". That made a choice to implement austerity for the not-rich while funnelling additional billions of national debt into the pockets of the very and extremely wealthy.  I'm not surprised you don't engage with arguments.  You've been, to use your own word, indoctrinated.

wow! Christine ,
The irony is strong with you today SMH !

[ippy]

In order to avoid a second, informed, vote on something you think is so obviously good for the country that you only need two words to justify your support, you'll vote for a party that elected a leader who talks of "watermelon smiles" and "picaninny" children.  The party of the "hostile environment". That made a choice to implement austerity for the not-rich while funnelling additional billions of national debt into the pockets of the very and extremely wealthy.  I'm not surprised you don't engage with arguments.  You've been, to use your own word, indoctrinated.

Yes Christine, I can see and understand your version of logic in this post of yours and funnily enough I feel the same as yourself about all of the politicians attached to any party you might wish to name, oh yes I'm obviously not a fan of the BBC or the Guardian newspaper's indoctrination club, I suppose it does look as though the opposing side of those we disagree with may well have been indoctrinated.

Anyway I wish you well no matter how much we differ on this one, regards ippy.

[Christine]

wow! Christine ,
The irony is strong with you today SMH !

I don't know what SMH stands for, but if you are making a point that I don't engage with arguments, I'm sorry.  I can access the site for short periods during working days, as I only have an I-pad at home and it refuses to either find the server or use the proxy server method.  Usually I can see that others have already made the points I would have liked to have made, better than I could, so I don't see the point in repetition. 

My reasons for wanting to remain in the EU are as follows:

I value my freedom of movement around and between 28 countries and the opportunity to work and live in any of them if I want to and can get a job.
I think it's a very good thing for leaders of nations to sit around the same table to discuss issues that might divide them, looking for mutually acceptable compromises.
The basic values of the EU such as no capital punishment, adherence to Human Rights and the requirement for a functioning democracy are helpful safeguards, along with some EU legislation such as the working time directive and restrictions on pesticides.  I'm sure there are regulations agreed by the member nations of the EU that I wouldn't agree with as well, same as legislation passed in Westminster.  I don't trust the Tories to safeguard anything that protects me and given the state of our FPTP voting system, I expect they'll be in office for the rest of my life.
One of the reasons we joined the EEC in the first place is because it confers economic benefits.  As we don't need to agree to or adopt any new measures on closer co-operation that the rest of the EU might want (though I wouldn't mind that) then I fail to see what has materially changed.  If you don't trust the Westminster government to veto things you disagree with in the EU, vote for a different Westminster government.  Westminster governments enact laws I disagree with frequently.
Given the state of the country due to nearly a decade of the Tories extracting value from the not-rich, we aren't in a position to risk a fall in GDP, which the vast majority of economic analysts, including those preparing reports for the government, agree will be an inevitable result of leaving the EU.

There's more detail in each area, but those are the broad reasons. I would be happy to debate, albeit at a very slow pace, any particular point anyone disagrees with.  Unlike ippy, I am open to rational argument and willing to revise my opinions based on facts.  The idea that people can't change their minds on this is just plain wrong.  My sister voted to leave the EU and would now, having been better informed, vote to remain a member.

[wigginhall]

I think for some people, Brexit is a religion.  You can't argue some people out of it, it's their faith.  Some of the Brexiter vox pops on TV are hilarious, but now I look away.  I guess the English like suffering.

[Walter]

Christine
I think you've missed my point .
You appear to believe that people who don't agree with you have been indoctrinated yet when I read your post I see the same thing . It looks like you've been indoctrinated but you're not aware of it .
That's all
SMH = shake my head 😎

[Christine]

Hi Walter, if you could take the part of any one of my posts that indicates indoctrination and tell me how and why, I'll be happy to discuss the nuts and bolts of my views with you. Or ippy. You both seem committed to keeping the benefits of leaving the EU under wraps, for some reason. Thanks for explaining SMH, I'm sure it'll come in handy.

[Walter]

Hi Walter, if you could take the part of any one of my posts that indicates indoctrination and tell me how and why, I'll be happy to discuss the nuts and bolts of my views with you. Or ippy. You both seem committed to keeping the benefits of leaving the EU under wraps, for some reason. Thanks for explaining SMH, I'm sure it'll come in handy.

hi Christine

Maybe you could show me where I said I wanted to leave the EU .

[Robbie]

Long time since I bought a newspaper but never thought the Times was right wing, they seemed to print all sorts of articles from different points of view on same day.

I like Guardian & the BBC, get that Guardian is somewhat left but the Beeb is neutral.

Christine your posts are so very good.

[Udayana]

Long time since I bought a newspaper but never thought the Times was right wing, they seemed to print all sorts of articles from different points of view on same day.

I like Guardian & the BBC, get that Guardian is somewhat left but the Beeb is neutral.

Christine your posts are so very good.

They have a variety of columnists however you only have to read the story headlines to see they have given up any idea of balance.

[Aruntraveller]

hi Christine

Maybe you could show me where I said I wanted to leave the EU .

I couldn't be bothered to read all that lot Gonners, but I think I know where you're coming
 from and yes I voted to LEAVE.

The search function is sometimes a wondrous thing.

[Robbie]

That post was from three years ago, maybe Walter has changed his mind since. Plenty have.