Author Topic: Brexit - the next steps  (Read 419468 times)

wigginhall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5600 on: January 14, 2020, 02:56:33 PM »
No doubt the hard of thinking will be rejoicing on 1st Feb that Brexit is 'done' - I give it until the end of March before reality starts to dawn on them, and by the summer the impending folly will become clearer when the soundbytes and lame promises are exposed as a sham.

Hard to say what the first major problems will be: my guess is that goods to and from NI will be exposed as problematic, as will the prospect of travel problems, where the biggie will be the prospect of 'no deal' at the end of the calendar year.   

There's also the issue of harmonization of regulations.  Of course, UK regs run in parallel with EU regs.   So what now?   Do you set up separate production lines with separate regs?  Rather expensive.  Or you could switch to US regs, possibly choking off trade with the EU.   Still, Liz Truss has the answers.
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5602 on: January 18, 2020, 03:12:57 PM »
Thank you Tories, and Tory voters: especially those in parts of England who switched sides to support the Tories. See what you've done - and it will  get worse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51161808

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/18/savid-javid-warns-there-will-be-no-alignment-on-eu-regulations-after-brexit

Udayana

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5603 on: January 18, 2020, 03:28:25 PM »
Thank you Tories, and Tory voters: especially those in parts of England who switched sides to support the Tories. See what you've done - and it will  get worse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51161808

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/18/savid-javid-warns-there-will-be-no-alignment-on-eu-regulations-after-brexit

No-deal is fine with Johnson. It was only because parliament made leaving with no deal last year impossible that he got off his backside and into any negotiation at all. He is using the same methods, impossible red lines and deadline, to get to WTO rules now.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5604 on: January 18, 2020, 11:09:17 PM »
My understanding is that the only countries trading solely on WTO rules are Palau and Mauritania. North Korea trades largely on WTO rules.

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Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5605 on: January 19, 2020, 12:31:15 AM »
Thanks for that link Gordon:

Quote
Javid once said the UK’s best economic place was to remain in the EU and the single market. In May 2016, a month before the referendum he said the only thing guaranteed about leaving the bloc was a decade of “stagnation and doubt”.

“Just like the Bank of England governor, Mark Carney, and IMF head Christine Lagarde, I still believe that Britain is better off in. And that’s all because of the single market.

“It’s a great invention, one that even Lady Thatcher campaigned enthusiastically to create. The world’s largest economic bloc, it gives every business in Britain access to 500 million customers with no barriers, no tariffs and no local legislation to worry about,” he said in an article in the Daily Telegraph.

So that would be Javid the lying, duplicitous shit talking, presumably.
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SteveH

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5606 on: January 19, 2020, 07:27:58 AM »
Brexshitters bang on about us being able to trade on WTO rules, as though that's fine, but as I understand it, WTO rules are the default, which a country is reduced to if it hasn't got anything better in place.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5607 on: January 19, 2020, 09:09:49 AM »
Brexshitters bang on about us being able to trade on WTO rules, as though that's fine, but as I understand it, WTO rules are the default, which a country is reduced to if it hasn't got anything better in place.

My understanding, too.
See my earlier post.
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Udayana

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5608 on: January 19, 2020, 12:11:31 PM »
All the inside news - from the Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7902843/Ministers-secretly-restart-No-Deal-plans-amid-fears-trade-talks-Brussels-collapse.html

What they want is a free trade deal without the backing of a level playing field. I expect excluding tax evasion and money laundering provisions also play a big part.   

Whatever happens, anything bad can be blamed on the EU or Remainers trying to undermine progress.
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jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5609 on: January 19, 2020, 07:31:12 PM »
All the inside news - from the Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7902843/Ministers-secretly-restart-No-Deal-plans-amid-fears-trade-talks-Brussels-collapse.html

What they want is a free trade deal without the backing of a level playing field. I expect excluding tax evasion and money laundering provisions also play a big part.   

Whatever happens, anything bad can be blamed on the EU or Remainers trying to undermine progress.

I'm pretty sure it will be No Deal. I can't believe the Brexiteers have brought this country so low.
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5611 on: January 21, 2020, 05:42:00 PM »
As if confirmation that the UK is irrevocably broken was still needed, the Welsh legislature has now joined Holyrood and Stormont in not consenting to the Brexit legislation. Since the Tories will proceed anyway (so much for 'bringing the country together'), the sooner the UK implodes the better since Brexit is primarily an English disease.     

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-51181641

jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5612 on: January 22, 2020, 07:47:06 PM »
As if confirmation that the UK is irrevocably broken was still needed, the Welsh legislature has now joined Holyrood and Stormont in not consenting to the Brexit legislation. Since the Tories will proceed anyway (so much for 'bringing the country together'), the sooner the UK implodes the better since Brexit is primarily an English disease.     

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-51181641
Except that more Welsh people voted for Brexit than Remain. Please stop trying to make this about regions. It's not. There are plenty of people in England who are just as fucked off with this as you are, just as there are plenty of people in Scotland who voted Leave.
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5613 on: January 22, 2020, 09:32:56 PM »
Except that more Welsh people voted for Brexit than Remain. Please stop trying to make this about regions. It's not. There are plenty of people in England who are just as fucked off with this as you are, just as there are plenty of people in Scotland who voted Leave.

Scotland isn't a region though: it is a nation that has its own parliament, which is being ignored by Westminster, with separate legal and educational systems etc. Therefore the views of its parliament regarding the Brexit legislation are important since the Scottish parliament is considered to reflect the views of its electorate and one aspect of this is a rejection in Scotland of both the Tory party and Brexit in both Holyrood and in current Scottish representation in Westminster.

FPP elections and referenda, where the 2016 result in Scotland was notable, are crude methods but by any standard the 2019 GE result, bearing in mind the context, indicates that Brexit is happening because it was the desire of the majority of the English electorate in 2016 to the extent that last year a substantial number of voters in England switched allegiance in order to support Brexit - and in Scotland, where the Tories campaigned on the basis that a vote for them was a vote against Indyref2/independence, lost substantial ground. Therefore the 'United Kingdom' isn't 'united' at all and the political mismatch between Scotland, and to a lesser extent NI, and England & Wales, seems to me to be firmly established now to the extent that the UK is untenable in the longer term if the electorate in England continue to support the Tories.

My hope, for what it is worth, is that Brexit (which won't be 'done' this month) will be the monumental fuck-up it promises to be, and that perhaps as 2020 progresses and the risk of 'no deal' in December grows, that this reality will force the political agenda in ways that encourages the break-up of the UK: food shortages and price rises, negative effects on jobs and employee rights and problems with goods moving to and from NI all look like potential problems - and that is without the risks of a closer trade relationship with the US.

Perhaps it may even be that the very people in the English regions who were naive enough to jump on the Tory bandwagon last year so as to let Brexit happen will be the very ones making the most noise once the penny eventually drops. For things to change so as to either get Brexit into safer hands and/or break-up the UK we are now dependent on the incompetence and intransigence of the Tory government - so we at least have a chance.     

Sriram

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5614 on: January 31, 2020, 04:06:36 PM »



Congratulations on Brexit, guys!  All the best for the future!

Don't worry...everything will be just fine..!  :)

Aruntraveller

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5615 on: January 31, 2020, 04:21:48 PM »


Congratulations on Brexit, guys!  All the best for the future!

Don't worry...everything will be just fine..!  :)

I fear you may have been taken in by some bollocks our PM has been spouting about "coming together" and "healing". I would suggest you just keep out of it. You don't generally congratulate people on cutting off their own limbs.
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jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5616 on: January 31, 2020, 04:29:40 PM »
Scotland isn't a region though:
Yes it is.
Quote
it is a nation

It's that too.

Quote
that has its own parliament, which is being ignored by Westminster
The current government is ignoring pretty much everybody. Don't feel bad.

Quote
Brexit is happening because it was the desire of the majority of the English electorate in 2016
It's happening because a small majority of the people who bothered to vote in Britain voted for it. There were not separate referendums for the separate nations of the UK. The only reason we know that a majority of the people in Scotland who voted, voted Remain is because of the way the counting was done.

Quote
My hope, for what it is worth, is that Brexit (which won't be 'done' this month) will be the monumental fuck-up it promises to be
It is my conclusion that the only way to persuade the Brexiteers that they have made a mistake is to show them the damage that is being done. Unfortunately, at this point Brexit is a cult, so even that might not work.

Anyway, as of tomorrow, I am no longer a Remainer, I am a Rejoiner.
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jeremyp

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5617 on: January 31, 2020, 04:30:46 PM »


Congratulations on Brexit, guys!  All the best for the future!

Don't worry...everything will be just fine..!  :)

Today is the darkest day of British history that has occurred in my lifetime. It will take decades to repair the damage that Brexit has done.
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Udayana

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5618 on: January 31, 2020, 05:06:05 PM »


Congratulations on Brexit, guys!  All the best for the future!

Don't worry...everything will be just fine..!  :)

Out of the frying pan...
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Spud

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5619 on: January 31, 2020, 07:12:35 PM »
The Brexit party all but pulled moonies in their last day in the EU parliament. Strange bunch.

Sriram

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5620 on: February 01, 2020, 04:41:13 AM »


Well ok.... but there must be someone here who is happy with Brexit, surely......  :-\

It can't be that bad...! A majority of the British cannot be wrong about what is good for them. 

Cheer up, guys!  :)

SusanDoris

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5621 on: February 01, 2020, 06:09:47 AM »

Well ok.... but there must be someone here who is happy with Brexit, surely......  :-\

It can't be that bad...! A majority of the British cannot be wrong about what is good for them. 

Cheer up, guys!  :)
It wasn't a 'majority' of the British, it was a small majority of those who bothered to vote in the referendum.
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Gordon

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5622 on: February 01, 2020, 07:12:45 AM »

Well ok.... but there must be someone here who is happy with Brexit, surely......  :-\

It can't be that bad...! A majority of the British cannot be wrong about what is good for them. 

Cheer up, guys!  :)

The only bright side is that the Tories, being Tories, will be exposed as presiding over an emerging disaster and that as the predictable shambles unfolds in various ways more and more of the Scottish electorate will be convinced that we need to jettison the UK, and that the opportunity to do so will present itself in due course.

Brexit, and this Tory government, are primarily owned by the England and Wales electorate, and the various pictures of them joyfully waving the butcher's apron last night was the end on the phoney Brexit: reality will be along directly. 


Harrowby Hall

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5623 on: February 01, 2020, 08:55:35 AM »

It can't be that bad...! A majority of the British cannot be wrong about what is good for them. 

Cheer up, guys!  :)

37% of the electorate (a little more than one third) voted to leave the EU. The vote was legally advisory not mandatory. The referendum campaign was poorly organised and the "No" campaign was largely in the hands of a group of millionaires concerned with protecting their wealth from reasonable taxation.

The incompetent prime minister who organised the referendum for purely party management reasons promptly took the cowards way out. His successor was clueless and she has been followed by a self-interested man who has spent many years courting popularity by appearing to be an amiable buffoon on television programmes.

A possible consequence is that membership of the largest free-trade, openly democratic, group of countries in the world may be jettisoned in favour of becoming the unofficial 51st state of the right-wing, religiously fundamental, gun-toting USA.
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ippy

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Re: Brexit - the next steps
« Reply #5624 on: February 01, 2020, 09:12:46 AM »

Well ok.... but there must be someone here who is happy with Brexit, surely......  :-\

It can't be that bad...! A majority of the British cannot be wrong about what is good for them. 

Cheer up, guys!  :)

I'm really pleased with the result Sriram, now have a read of the shower of abuse that's very likely to follow this post.

Both sides of the Brexit dispute seem to think the other side have lost their marbles and I can't see that altering for some considerable time.

In my experience Brexit's a subject that's not polite to speak about within a family environment I've only heard coded messages referring to who the leavers or remainers are in the family and there's a need to tread lightly with anything to do with the dreaded subject.

I suppose at age 77 years I can be firmly be included among the 'old gits' section of society perhaps that's why I have difficulty understanding why there appears to be so much overuse of the old Anglo Saxon four letter expletives these days, I find its use more disappointing than shocking, Brexit seems to be pulling out so much of this language, a shame.

Regards, ippy.