Brexit - the next steps

[ippy]

I'd amazed, given the rapid worsening of the Covid situation, both here and across much of the rest of Europe, that there has been no emergency move to find a legal way of continuing the current transitional arrangements for a further 6 - 9 months or so to allow for mass vaccination and for the Covid crisis to become less acute - it seems madness to allow the likely disruption from the the insanity of Brexit to happen in the current circumstances.

Yes that's one way of looking at things but unfortunately for you most of the UK were and are determined to leave in spite of the difficulties that admittedly are bound to occur.

That's where we differ I think you'll find most if not all levers think it's for the long term best, I think we all know the majority of the old warn out arguments of the BBC inspired, 'in spite of', or 'because of' etc and the rather unnecessary abusive terms that haven't achieved much other than perhaps strengthening the resolve of those of us like me that really don't relish the idea of 'ever closer union'.

I have some remainers in my own family it's a subject we mostly leave on one side, I pop my head up from time to time on this thread more to let it be known it's not a remainers only thread.

ippy.

[Gordon]

Yes that's one way of looking at things but unfortunately for you most of the UK were and are determined to leave in spite of the difficulties that admittedly are bound to occur.

Your spiteful determination to impose "difficulties" on Scotland isn't going down very well here - as will be made clear in May. 

That's where we differ I think you'll find most if not all levers think it's for the long term best

In what way "best".

I think we all know the majority of the old warn out arguments of the BBC inspired, 'in spite of', or 'because of' etc and the rather unnecessary abusive terms that haven't achieved much other than perhaps strengthening the resolve of those of us like me that really don't relish the idea of 'ever closer union'.

So, does your "resolve" justify the damage that will be done?

I don't relish the current existing "ever closer union' with the electorate of England continuing if the majority there think as you do by voting for both Brexit and the Tories - hopefully that will change in due course, Scotland will opt out of the sinking-ship UK, and we can leave you guys to get your wagons in a circle and man the barricades in order to keep johhny foreigner at bay.

Remember - when it goes belly-up, as it surely will, you guys bear all of the responsibility.

[Stranger]

Yes that's one way of looking at things but unfortunately for you most of the UK were and are determined to leave in spite of the difficulties that admittedly are bound to occur.

That's where we differ I think you'll find most if not all levers think it's for the long term best, I think we all know the majority of the old warn out arguments of the BBC inspired, 'in spite of', or 'because of' etc and the rather unnecessary abusive terms that haven't achieved much other than perhaps strengthening the resolve of those of us like me that really don't relish the idea of 'ever closer union'.

The referendum was won on a string of lies about lots of money for the NHS, the easiest deal in human history, and so on. Nobody in the leave campaign was talking about how much it was going to cost the economy or how many jobs would be lost, that was all dismissed as 'project fear'. We also had an opt-out from 'ever closer union' (although you've never actually said why you think it is such a bad idea).

Even now people are regretting the choice according to polls and that's before any of the real consequences have even happened. How do you think the support will hold up when they do, especially if there's no deal and we get mass job losses and shortages of fresh food and medicines on top of all the suffering from Covid?

I have some remainers in my own family it's a subject we mostly leave on one side, I pop my head up from time to time on this thread more to let it be known it's not a remainers only thread.

Yes, to do a Nicolas Marks: spout your unsupported blind faith and ignore all the counterarguments.

[Gordon]

Bearing in mind Brexit is a Tory-driven notion you'd have thought that by now, over 4 years on, and at this late stage in the game , they'd have at least united as a party behind what form of Brexit is their agreed policy: but no, they are still arguing among themselves and their lunatic fringe continues to wag the rest of the lunatic dog.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/20/conservative-mps-threaten-rebellion-on-brexit-deal

[jakswan]

The debate is not over. The UK is eventually going to rejoin the EU.Ha ha. That is hilarious.

Sounds like you made a joke and laughed at it?

If you want us to rejoin you need to improve on your skills of persuasion.

The Brexiteers have royally fucked up this country and every single one of you bears some of the blame.

That is the sort of attitude the resulted in you losing the vote in the first place, democracy: winners/losers both take responsibility.

I wanted Norway, there was a point where remain politicians and supporters could have got that, they passed it up for a chance of another vote.

[ippy]

Your spiteful determination to impose "difficulties" on Scotland isn't going down very well here - as will be made clear in May. 

In what way "best".

So, does your "resolve" justify the damage that will be done?

I don't relish the current existing "ever closer union' with the electorate of England continuing if the majority there think as you do by voting for both Brexit and the Tories - hopefully that will change in due course, Scotland will opt out of the sinking-ship UK, and we can leave you guys to get your wagons in a circle and man the barricades in order to keep johhny foreigner at bay.

Remember - when it goes belly-up, as it surely will, you guys bear all of the responsibility.

Like I keep on saying my view is as near as you can get to the complete opposite of yours, not that I feel I need to apologise but I do think it's a shame this Grand Canyon like of a divide has come up and I am sorry some take it so bitterly.

ippy.

[ippy]

The referendum was won on a string of lies about lots of money for the NHS, the easiest deal in human history, and so on. Nobody in the leave campaign was talking about how much it was going to cost the economy or how many jobs would be lost, that was all dismissed as 'project fear'. We also had an opt-out from 'ever closer union' (although you've never actually said why you think it is such a bad idea).

Even now people are regretting the choice according to polls and that's before any of the real consequences have even happened. How do you think the support will hold up when they do, especially if there's no deal and we get mass job losses and shortages of fresh food and medicines on top of all the suffering from Covid?

Yes, to do a Nicolas Marks: spout your unsupported blind faith and ignore all the counterarguments.

I've answered Gordon's post earlier on and that answer would be much the same to you N T S.

We'll never see eye to eye on this one.

ippy.

[Stranger]

I've answered Gordon's post earlier on and that answer would be much the same to you N T S.

We'll never see eye to eye on this one.

Not as long as you keep running away from the issues like all the fundie theists you like to criticise so much.   

[ippy]

Not as long as you keep running away from the issues like all the fundie theists you like to criticise so much.   

I'm still here N T S.

ippy.

[Stranger]

I'm still here N T S.

Yes - and still running away from all the arguments that are put to you...

[ippy]

Yes - and still running away from all the arguments that are put to you...

Time of good will and all of that and you know we'll never agree on this one and your view about brexit is equally as poisonous to me.

ippy.

[Stranger]

Time of good will and all of that and you know we'll never agree on this one and your view about brexit is equally as poisonous to me.

You're never going to agree with theists either, but it doesn't stop you criticising them, specifically for not having proper evidence to offer. Yet here you are making claims and refusing to even discuss any evidence...

[Nearly Sane]

This looks like fun


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/dec/19/aerial-footage-shows-scale-of-lorry-queues-on-m20-to-dover-video?CMP=share_btn_tw

[ippy]

You're never going to agree with theists either, but it doesn't stop you criticising them, specifically for not having proper evidence to offer. Yet here you are making claims and refusing to even discuss any evidence...

Like I have said I'm fine with your point of view and you're welcome to it.

ippy.

[Nearly Sane]

Oven ready


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-55393560?__twitter_impression=true

[jeremyp]

Yes that's one way of looking at things but unfortunately for you most of the UK were and are determined to leave in spite of the difficulties that admittedly are bound to occur.

That is almost certainly false. 52% of the actual voters wanted Brexit and even some of them would probably have voted the other way if they had known what the reality of the situation would be four years hence. People under the age of 18 at the time were fairly comprehensively in favour of staying in the EU.

I think you are a coward on this subject, by the way. Why don't you just admit that you think your sovereignty fantasy important to you than other people's well being and livelihoods?

[jeremyp]

Sounds like you made a joke and laughed at it?

You made the joke with your claim about the best Brexit deal possible. It currently looks odds on that there will be no deal at all.

If you want us to rejoin you need to improve on your skills of persuasion.

No I don't. Over the next few years and decades it will become blindingly obvious that we need to be in the EU. Brexit only had a wafer thin majority in the first place.

That is the sort of attitude the resulted in you losing the vote in the first place, democracy: winners/losers both take responsibility.

What lost us the vote was all the lying by the Leave campaigns.

Do you honestly think Brexit is going well?

I wanted Norway, there was a point where remain politicians and supporters could have got that, they passed it up for a chance of another vote.

Rubbish. Norway was never going to happen. The Brexit campaigners who told you it could or would were lying.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

You're never going to agree with theists either, but it doesn't stop you criticising them, specifically for not having proper evidence to offer. Yet here you are making claims and refusing to even discuss any evidence...

ippy will be the last to admit that he has been indoctrinated by the Brexit lies due to being weak-minded.

Nor is he likely to admit that he can't change his mind because he needs to believe he hasn't been lied to otherwise his whole belief system will come crashing down and he is too afraid to face life without that security blanket of blind belief without evidence.

Sovereignty - the control of their physical borders, laws and money. Except because we rely on transnational co-operation to have any kind of power or influence in the world or indeed food on the table, Britain will continue to compromise sovereignty with every trade deal they sign up to where they have to comply with the laws of another country on environment, safety and employment in order to be allowed to sell British goods or services to their markets. Presumably the idea is for us to be able to sell things we produce for our economy to grow.

Britain will also compromise sovereignty when they have to beg or pay for French co-operation if they expect the French to stop asylum seekers crossing the Channel to Britain in dinghies.

[ippy]

ippy will be the last to admit that he has been indoctrinated by the Brexit lies due to being weak-minded.

Nor is he likely to admit that he can't change his mind because he needs to believe he hasn't been lied to otherwise his whole belief system will come crashing down and he is too afraid to face life without that security blanket of blind belief without evidence.

Sovereignty - the control of their physical borders, laws and money. Except because we rely on transnational co-operation to have any kind of power or influence in the world or indeed food on the table, Britain will continue to compromise sovereignty with every trade deal they sign up to where they have to comply with the laws of another country on environment, safety and employment in order to be allowed to sell British goods or services to their markets. Presumably the idea is for us to be able to sell things we produce for our economy to grow.

Britain will also compromise sovereignty when they have to beg or pay for French co-operation if they expect the French to stop asylum seekers crossing the Channel to Britain in dinghies.

Love it Gabriella, have a lovely christmas and a happy new one too.

Regards, ippy.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Love it Gabriella, have a lovely christmas and a happy new one too.

Regards, ippy.

I thought the common thread running through all beliefs was worth pointing out. Your focus on religious beliefs being a special separate category from other beliefs seems to have blown up in your face, given your unevidenced faith or belief in the benefits of British sovereignty. As you often like to refer to it, your beliefs are clearly the result of indoctrination, probably by your family when you were a child, and you have been unable to shake it off. My deepest commiserations 

You haven't been able to define sovereignty or provide any evidence on how sovereignty benefits Britain, given we have to relinquish sovereignty through trade deals and because of our reliance on trans national cooperation in order to survive. 

I wish you a lovely Christmas too and a Happy New Year.

[ippy]

I thought the common thread running through all beliefs was worth pointing out. Your focus on religious beliefs being a special separate category from other beliefs seems to have blown up in your face, given your unevidenced faith or belief in the benefits of British sovereignty. As you often like to refer to it, your beliefs are clearly the result of indoctrination, probably by your family when you were a child, and you have been unable to shake it off. My deepest commiserations 

You haven't been able to define sovereignty or provide any evidence on how sovereignty benefits Britain, given we have to relinquish sovereignty through trade deals and because of our reliance on trans national cooperation in order to survive. 

I wish you a lovely Christmas too and a Happy New Year.

You're right I haven't been able to define sovereignty but that's only because I've chosen not to define it.

Sovereignty's not the only reason I think it's the wisest choice to leave the EU, it is my topmost reason but as you must be aware  there's so much animosity that seems to to me to be be coming from the minority view on this subject, I only wish to put a leaver mark on this almost devoid of leavers thread.

Regards, ippy.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

You're right I haven't been able to define sovereignty but that's only because I've chosen not to define it.

Sovereignty's not the only reason I think it's the wisest choice to leave the EU, it is my topmost reason but as you must be aware  there's so much animosity that seems to to me to be be coming from the minority view on this subject, I only wish to put a leaver mark on this almost devoid of leavers thread.

Regards, ippy.

Ok so when you do choose to define sovereignty and its benefits or any other Leave benefits or actually post some arguments that people can engage with, then the Leave perspective might not be dismissed on this thread. As yet, the only mark you seem to be putting on this thread is that Leave don't have any arguments - just blind faith.

[Roses]

I think it is becoming clear to many people that Brexit has no benefits whatsoever, especially if there is no deal with the EU.

[ippy]

I think it is becoming clear to many people that Brexit has no benefits whatsoever, especially if there is no deal with the EU.

You're right about the many people L R, but unfortunately for you not nearly enough.

ippy

[ippy]

Ok so when you do choose to define sovereignty and its benefits or any other Leave benefits or actually post some arguments that people can engage with, then the Leave perspective might not be dismissed on this thread. As yet, the only mark you seem to be putting on this thread is that Leave don't have any arguments - just blind faith.

It's a free country V G. (I've no idea why I reversed your handle).

ippy