Brexit - the next steps

[jakswan]

The disaster continues to unfold: can't say I'm surprised.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/10/baffling-brexit-rules-threaten-export-chaos-gove-is-warned

Aye lets hope Nicola is keeping a close watch as she wants Scotland to go through the same thing with rUK, well assuming she survives.

[Nearly Sane]

Aye lets hope Nicola is keeping a close watch as she wants Scotland to go through the same thing with rUK, well assuming she survives.

Classic whataboutery

[jakswan]

Classic whataboutery

Right back at ya!

[Nearly Sane]

Right back at ya!

So you accept you used the tu quoque fallacy?

[SteveH]

 

[jakswan]

So you accept you used the tu quoque fallacy?

No.

Let me start with Gordon's post again, less glib this time.

The disaster continues to unfold: can't say I'm surprised.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/10/baffling-brexit-rules-threaten-export-chaos-gove-is-warned

Gordon, given you label this as a disaster, does it give you any concern on what an iScotland might have to go through in order to continue trading with UK?

[Gordon]

No.

Let me start with Gordon's post again, less glib this time.
Gordon, given you label this as a disaster, does it give you any concern on what an iScotland might have to go through in order to continue trading with UK?

How can it at this stage - it would be a separate negotiation involving very different circumstances; for instance, an independent Scotland would have no land border with the EU, and any subsequent agreement an independent Scotland would seek to negotiate with the EU (pending applying for EU membership), such as custom union/single market, would probably not be identical to that just negotiated by the UK. Moreover, an independent Scotland's preferences as regards its immediate relationship the EU post independence would clearly be a factor in its negotiations with the UK.       

The issue that the Guardian link highlights is that what has just been negotiated by the UK government is already proving to be problematic, and that is a consequence of the UKs particular approach to the EU, which may not be the approach adopted by an independent Scotland.   

[Nearly Sane]

How can it at this stage - it would be a separate negotiation involving very different circumstances; for instance, an independent Scotland would have no land border with the EU, and any subsequent agreement an independent Scotland would seek to negotiate with the EU (pending applying for EU membership), such as custom union/single market, would probably not be identical to that just negotiated by the UK. Moreover, an independent Scotland's preferences as regards its immediate relationship the EU post independence would clearly be a factor in its negotiations with the UK.       

The issue that the Guardian link highlights is that what has just been negotiated by the UK government is already proving to be problematic, and that is a consequence of the UKs particular approach to the EU, which may not be the approach adopted by an independent Scotland.

I think the difficulty of the negotiations for Brexit are a reasonable question to raise in terms of how Scexit might happen. It's unlikely to be any simpler and if we are adding in rejoining the EU at around the same time likely to be way more complex - though it might be argued that the Northern Ireland deal is not a million miles away from something that might work.


As already pointed out in reply to Trentvoayager though the argument that the rUK govt might act as bastards in any such negotiation isn't a good one for staying as it's the argument for staying on an abusive relationship. Just been having a conversation about this and what the Tory party is currently not is a positive unionist party. That I think is the biggest recruotinv sargeant for Yes voters.

[jakswan]

How can it at this stage - it would be a separate negotiation involving very different circumstances; for instance, an independent Scotland would have no land border with the EU, and any subsequent agreement an independent Scotland would seek to negotiate with the EU (pending applying for EU membership), such as custom union/single market, would probably not be identical to that just negotiated by the UK. Moreover, an independent Scotland's preferences as regards its immediate relationship the EU post independence would clearly be a factor in its negotiations with the UK.       

I think if Scotland joined EU customs union then it would have to leave the UK single market?

The issue that the Guardian link highlights is that what has just been negotiated by the UK government is already proving to be problematic, and that is a consequence of the UKs particular approach to the EU, which may not be the approach adopted by an independent Scotland.

I agree Scotland-EU will have zero issues but once Scotland joins the EU then Scotland-rUK relationship would be exactly like EU-UK relationship.

[Nearly Sane]

More 'benefits'


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-free-work-musicians-eu-brexit-b1784600.html

[jeremyp]

More 'benefits'


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-free-work-musicians-eu-brexit-b1784600.html

And I cannot understand why the UK didn't agree to that one. Maybe it's because most musicians are Remainers and they wanted to spite them.

[Nearly Sane]

More 'benefits'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9132689/amp/Supermarket-shelves-hit-Brexit-port-chaos-staff-shortages-stores-run-low-fruit-veg.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

[Nearly Sane]

And more 'benefits'


https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/09/pesticide-believed-kill-bees-authorised-use-england-eu-farmers?__twitter_impression=true

[Nearly Sane]

And yet more 'benefits'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55633632

[Nearly Sane]

This might be classed by some as a benefit

https://www.politico.eu/article/speeding-ticket-enforcement-reversed-after-brexit/?amp;amp

[Nearly Sane]

The 'benefits' keep coming


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-france-fish-idUSKBN29H2CK?taid=5ffe241f4156da0001be24d9&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

[Nearly Sane]

The problems of not having time to scrutinise the deal


https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/brexit-fisheries-minister-did-not-read-deal-as-she-was-very-busy-organising-local-nativity-trail/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Gordon]

Another 'benefit'.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fresh-seafood-exports-scotland-eu-halted-fishing-brexit

[Nearly Sane]

'Better, happier fish'



https://www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/news/national/19011234.fish-better-happier-now-british-claims-rees-mogg/

[Udayana]

They certainly will be happier without British boats after them!

[Nearly Sane]

The Percy Pigs problem


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55648201

[Aruntraveller]

'Better, happier fish'



https://www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/news/national/19011234.fish-better-happier-now-british-claims-rees-mogg/

Are people ever going to realise that this man is an absolute fucking joke. He's a caricature that even caricaturists could not have thought up.

[Nearly Sane]

Are people ever going to realise that this man is an absolute fucking joke. He's a caricature that even caricaturists could not have thought up.

I don't find him a joke. That he makes a stupid and pathetic remark like this about people losing their businesses because of his actions, and the actions of the govt he is in makes him dangerous.

[Aruntraveller]

I don't find him a joke. That he makes a stupid and pathetic remark like this about people losing their businesses because of his actions, and the actions of the govt he is in makes him dangerous.

I take your point. Although jokes can I think be dangerous.

[Nearly Sane]

I take your point. Although jokes can I think be dangerous.

Especially elected ones - but I think much of the caricaturing of the likes of  Rees Mogg and Johnson allows the inherent danger to slip by.