Brexit - the next steps

[jeremyp]

I've been noting much of the waffle coming from various Tory fuckwits today: the notion that some of the current difficulties are to be expected as part of the transition arising from Brexit is laughable since, if that were true, then pig farmers would not be faced with the prospect of slaughtering their own livestock because the abattoirs no longer have the staff and there might have been a few more tanker drivers kicking around.
 

It's not laughable, it was predictable (and predicted). Unfortunately, the Brexiteers lied to us and enough people bought the lies to put us in this mess.

About the only part of this mess that was not predicted before the Brexit vote (or at least that I was unaware of) was the Northern Ireland border fiasco.

[Anchorman]

It's not laughable, it was predictable (and predicted). Unfortunately, the Brexiteers lied to us and enough people bought the lies to put us in this mess.

About the only part of this mess that was not predicted before the Brexit vote (or at least that I was unaware of) was the Northern Ireland border fiasco.

   



Several media outlets in the Province warned repeatedly that brexit would be a problem for all sides.
A joint delegation met with Cameron and co three times in 2015, but he seemed to ignore them.
The NI situation has no easy solution which would pacify the hotheads on both sides.

[Gordon]

It's not laughable, it was predictable (and predicted). Unfortunately, the Brexiteers lied to us and enough people bought the lies to put us in this mess.

About the only part of this mess that was not predicted before the Brexit vote (or at least that I was unaware of) was the Northern Ireland border fiasco.

I think that a core issue here is that first there is Brexit, as a thing, and then there is the form of Brexit that this government pursued: where there were options that, as I understand it, would see the UK leave EU but remain in the Single Market, where that option wouldn't require the NI Protocol that this government negotiated in bad faith and they are now intent on opting out of, now that they can see for themselves - despite having been told beforehand- that what they agreed just won't work. The version of Brexit this government have agreed now looks very much like the equivalent of a do-it-yourself hangman's kit.

I listened earlier to Boris the Liar on the radio, and on Andrew Marr yesterday, simply not engaging with the issue now facing pig farmers: where he dismissively said that pigs will get killed anyway so that we can enjoy a bacon sandwich, while seemingly refusing to recognise that because, post-Brexit, the facilities needed to slaughter and butcher them are now insufficient, farmers are faced with having to cull their livestock before they ever reach the food chain.
 
I used to think that the government chose a form of Brexit that would keep its lunatic fringe quiet: but it now seems that this lunatic fringe has now grown to include most of the Tory party, for whom 'Brexit' is now an article of faith to the extent that they refuse to concede that Brexit has been, and will continue to be, problematic because of how they approached it. This lunacy is apparent in recent attempts to portray the various problem issues as being part of the 'post-Brexit transformation': but this 'transformation' seems to have come as a surprise to them, which belies any notion that Brexit/Tory supporters knew what they were voting for - since if they did then the current and continuing chaos that is Brexit must be part of the plan.       

[Aruntraveller]

Seen elsewhere:

Why has it only just been pointed out to me that "Get Brexit Done" is an anagram of "being extorted".

[jeremyp]

I think that a core issue here is that first there is Brexit, as a thing, and then there is the form of Brexit that this government pursued: where there were options that, as I understand it, would see the UK leave EU but remain in the Single Market, where that option wouldn't require the NI Protocol that this government negotiated in bad faith

The option of staying in the single market was never really on the table. It's the same as being in the EU but without any say in how the rules are made up. In other words, from the "take back control" perspective, it would have made things worse.

and they are now intent on opting out of, now that they can see for themselves - despite having been told beforehand- that what they agreed just won't work. The version of Brexit this government have agreed now looks very much like the equivalent of a do-it-yourself hangman's kit.

I listened earlier to Boris the Liar on the radio, and on Andrew Marr yesterday, simply not engaging with the issue now facing pig farmers: where he dismissively said that pigs will get killed anyway so that we can enjoy a bacon sandwich, while seemingly refusing to recognise that because, post-Brexit, the facilities needed to slaughter and butcher them are now insufficient, farmers are faced with having to cull their livestock before they ever reach the food chain.

I look forward to the bacon shortage. I can't think of many things more likely to make the country realise we are being run by a total incompetent.

I used to think that the government chose a form of Brexit that would keep its lunatic fringe quiet: but it now seems that this lunatic fringe has now grown to include most of the Tory party, for whom 'Brexit' is now an article of faith to the extent that they refuse to concede that Brexit has been, and will continue to be, problematic because of how they approached it. This lunacy is apparent in recent attempts to portray the various problem issues as being part of the 'post-Brexit transformation': but this 'transformation' seems to have come as a surprise to them, which belies any notion that Brexit/Tory supporters knew what they were voting for - since if they did then the current and continuing chaos that is Brexit must be part of the plan.       

It is part of the Brexit transformation: the transformation from being an affluent strong country in the heart of the EU to being a tin pot little dictatorship on its edges trying to turn the clock back to the 1950s.

Tory MPs are in a hell of a fix: having got on the train, getting off would be instant political suicide even though they know it's heading for the collapsed bridge over the gorge of death.

[Nearly Sane]

“The problem with a revolt against imaginary opposition is that you get imaginary freedom”

Fintan O’Toole on Brexit

[Gordon]

Hard to see how Boris the Liar can be so dismissive and trite about something that is actually happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/pigs-culled-amid-uk-shortage-abattoir-workers

His most recent comment on this, as per The Guardian's 'Politics Live' page is "What you can’t do is government can’t magic-up changes to that their systems overnight. People need to recognise that we can’t simply continue with models which have basically held this country back and held our economy back. That’s why we’re going for a different approach."

Perhaps then it might have been more sensible to migrate from an old model to a new model and not, as they have done, allow the old model to just fail: that is, of course, if you accept that there is indeed this 'different approach' in the offing, which I personally doubt.

[Gordon]

This could be worth watching, especially if the threat is serious as winter approaches: I'm getting some popcorn in.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/france-uk-jersey-eu-energy-supply-fishing-row-channel

[Nearly Sane]

This could be worth watching, especially if the threat is serious as winter approaches: I'm getting some popcorn in.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/france-uk-jersey-eu-energy-supply-fishing-row-channel

If there is any in the shops.

[Gordon]

If there is any in the shops.

I'll check tomorrow, and if so buy a few bags.

[Gordon]

As an aside, Boris the Liar did his speech to his fellow fuckwits earlier today and his 'intro' was a song 'Blue Cassette', by the Friendly Fires.

The band aren't happy: they hadn't given their permission and they have asked their management to stop it happening again - they added "If we'd have intended them to use it, we'd have named the track 'Blue Bunch of Corrupt Wankers'".

Seems like fair comment to me.

[Gordon]

This looks worrying - my impression is, and I may have the wrong impression, is that the UK government is now in self-destruct mode due to its blind faith in Brexit.

Maybe things will need to implode before the Tory government can be got rid of, though in spite of it all they retain support in some parts of the UK - but who knows how much what damage will occur, and whether it will be enough to change the minds of enough Tory/Brexit supporters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/09/trade-war-looms-as-uk-set-to-spurn-eu-offer-on-northern-ireland

[Nearly Sane]

Deeply depressing news from Northern Ireland


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pup-leader-billy-hutchinson-says-unionists-can-no-longer-back-good-friday-agreement-41028885.html

[jeremyp]

This looks worrying - my impression is, and I may have the wrong impression, is that the UK government is now in self-destruct mode due to its blind faith in Brexit.

I don't agree. The government is in self destruct mode because of basic incompetence. Boris Johnson manifestly does not know how to lead a country. The government's blind faith in Brexit is a consequence of its utter uselessness.

Maybe things will need to implode before the Tory government can be got rid of, though in spite of it all they retain support in some parts of the UK - but who knows how much what damage will occur, and whether it will be enough to change the minds of enough Tory/Brexit supporters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/09/trade-war-looms-as-uk-set-to-spurn-eu-offer-on-northern-ireland

The government is setting the EU up as an enemy to distract us from all the fuckwittery it is doing at the moment. I think this rant by James O'Brien nails it (it's been posted here before, but it's worth posting again).

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1456601290096660482

[jeremyp]

Deeply depressing news from Northern Ireland


https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pup-leader-billy-hutchinson-says-unionists-can-no-longer-back-good-friday-agreement-41028885.html

I'm beginning to think the easiest solution is just to cede sovereignty of Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland. It's either that or break the Good Friday Agreement or put a border in place between mainland UK and Ulster. Personally, I'd be OK with the last option. It would serve as a fitting monument to the utter stupidity that is Brexit.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm beginning to think the easiest solution is just to cede sovereignty of Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland. It's either that or break the Good Friday Agreement or put a border in place between mainland UK and Ulster. Personally, I'd be OK with the last option. It would serve as a fitting monument to the utter stupidity that is Brexit.

Or we could remain outside the EU (thereby respecting the result of the 2016 referendum, in which the question was solely about membership of the EU and was completely silent on the nature of a non-membership relationship) and we could rejoin the single market/customs union, thereby solving the NI problem instantly.

[Aruntraveller]

Or we could remain outside the EU (thereby respecting the result of the 2016 referendum, in which the question was solely about membership of the EU and was completely silent on the nature of a non-membership relationship) and we could rejoin the single market/customs union, thereby solving the NI problem instantly.

I'd go for that given the damage being done to the economy, but do you think they'd have us now after all the crap we've subjected them to?

[jeremyp]

Or we could remain outside the EU (thereby respecting the result of the 2016 referendum, in which the question was solely about membership of the EU and was completely silent on the nature of a non-membership relationship) and we could rejoin the single market/customs union, thereby solving the NI problem instantly.

Yes that would work. The only problem is that it would destroy the careers of several people who are still in charge of making the decisions.

[jeremyp]

I'd go for that given the damage being done to the economy, but do you think they'd have us now after all the crap we've subjected them to?

Yes they would. In fact, we could walk straight back into the EU if we wanted to. The British economy is still pretty large and would still be an asset for them.

[Aruntraveller]

Yes they would. In fact, we could walk straight back into the EU if we wanted to. The British economy is still pretty large and would still be an asset for them.

I certainly hope so. Still with the current lot in charge this is all a bit of a pipe dream.

[jeremyp]

I certainly hope so. Still with the current lot in charge this is all a bit of a pipe dream.

And by the time somebody competent takes charge we might not have an attractively large economy.

[Nearly Sane]

Northern Ireland out performing rest of UK

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/northern-ireland-economy-outperforms-rest-of-uk-303057/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=sfeu

[Aruntraveller]

Northern Ireland out performing rest of UK

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/northern-ireland-economy-outperforms-rest-of-uk-303057/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=sfeu

Gosh. It's almost as if a single market is a good idea. Who'd have thunk it?

[Nearly Sane]

Gosh. It's almost as if a single market is a good idea. Who'd have thunk it?

https://youtu.be/Oz8RjPAD2Jk

[Nearly Sane]

Ah the sunlit uplands