What do other posters on this Forum really KNOW about Paganism/witchcraft

[Brownie]

Doreen Irvine's book, which I read in the 1970s and since, is sensationalist nonsense!
There is a genre of such books, popular at one time, easily recognisable from their covers.

http://saff.nfshost.com/dirvine.htm
https://swallowingthecamel.me/2011/03/11/the-prodigal-witch-part-i-doreen-irvine/
https://darrylslibrary.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/from-witchcraft-to-christ-by-doreen-irvine/

There is much more information available.

Owlswing started this thread to inform us about Paganism/witchcraft.  He will answer questions and tell us what he knows from his experience of being a witch and having studied the craft for many years;  he has already says he doesn't know it all - no-one does - and that there are many strands.  He is not trying to convert anyone.

We aren't all going to become Pagans or witches, we merely want to understand what it is all about a little better from an academic point of view and from an unbiased position. 

If a poster cannot study something academically without bias it is better to look at another subject.

Anchorman has posted some very interesting and complicated Egyptology information which will not cause anyone to be 'spooked'.

(NS: just saw your last post. What SP says in your quote was a definite opinion, compared with what she said at beginning of her post where she appeared unsure, so there is some conflict.  She'll probably come back and tell us what she thinks now, after Owlswing's long reply.)

[Owlswing]

Studied it longer than 10 years my nephews partner has been a white witch over 20 years.
Not sure why someone would think they know more than the high priest and priestess of white magic or even Doreen Irvine who wrote from 'Witchcraft to Christ.'
I believe there is too much having researched it for ONE person to know more or better than those in the thick of it.

Moderator: Content removed as inappropriate for Faith Sharing Area

Sassy

Your comments above display your total ignorance of the subject loud and clear.

Only someone who "played" at being a witch and a pagan or deluded themselves into thinking they are pagan or witch would refer to themselves and others as "white".

There are no such things as "black" and/or "white" magic or witches. Magic in and of itself is entirely neutral. It is truly said by witches that "if you cannot curse, you cannot cure", both spells are basically the same, the difference is in the intent, the desired result.

Please get you nephew's partner to join this forum and speak for herself as, I regret to say, on this particular subject I would not trust what you say on the subject if you were swearing to the truth of your utterances while lying upon a stack of bibles fifty feet high - you have proved upon many occasions that you are incapable of rational thought on this subject.

I would aslo ask that you name

the high priest and priestess of white magic

as, to my knowledge and, unlike you I actually practice the art, let me make my own judgement upon their authority, or, far more likely, lack of it.

I would also like to see what your definition of

in the thick of it

is and exactly what the

it

is. Obviously you would have to start your own thread to do this on another topic!

As to Doreen Irvine, there can be few people in this world held in greater contempt by the Pagan/Craft community.

To end, I am surprised that it has taken you this long to bring your bile to this thread.

I thank the Moderator for his intervention upon my behalf.


 

[Brownie]

Owl:  "As to Doreen Irvine, there can be few people in this world held in greater contempt by the Pagan/Craft community."

I'm not surprised.  There aren't many Christians who esteem her either.

At least now we've got her out of the way and the discussion can move on.

[Owlswing]

Owl:  "As to Doreen Irvine, there can be few people in this world held in greater contempt by the Pagan/Craft community."

I'm not surprised.  There aren't many Christians who esteem her either.

At least now we've got her out of the way and the discussion can move on.

I wish that I could be so confident about 'moving the discussion on'. We have yet to hear views or claims to knowledge from more than one Christian.

This, to put it mildly, is a disappointment as I would have hoped that they would welcome the opportunity to tell me what a load of old rowlocks (edited as I am speaking to a lady) I am trying to foist onto the gullible of this forum.

Another notable absentee is, of course, the Grand Wizard of Isms and Ologies to whom I would have thought this thread offered opportunities beyond their wildest dreams!

Edited for probable breaches of Topic etiquette.

[Brownie]

Give it time, Owl.

People tend to forget the Faith Sharing area, preferring the cut and thrust of the Christian and R&E sections.

Ad_o has had the same problem with his Orthodoxy thread but I'm hoping others will join in.

That's life I'm afraid but it's not personal.

NS will no doubt be back to make sure your respondents are behaving and to add a bit, and Anchorman makes wondrous posts (still trying to work out the one he did last night  ).

I can't see the people you have mentioned being interested, quite honestly;  I could be wrong of course.
T8 might be, Gonners and Prof Davey.   They probably haven't noticed it yet.

Perhaps, if the subject comes up elsewhere, you could point people in this direction.  I will.

[Anchorman]

Just because Christians accept the path we've chosen does not mean we shoudn't respect - or be interested in - the beliefs of others. The vitriol some of my fellow believers pour on others' choice saddens me. I may not agree with that choice, but treating it with contempt serves no purpose.

[trippymonkey]

Agree entirely.
Problem is when certain religions brag that THEY are the best for ALL humankind etc etc & ALL non-believers are less than animals. 
Anyone who knows my views on a certain religion will guess which one !?!?!?

Nick

[Owlswing]

Just because Christians accept the path we've chosen does not mean we shoudn't respect - or be interested in - the beliefs of others. The vitriol some of my fellow believers pour on others' choice saddens me. I may not agree with that choice, but treating it with contempt serves no purpose.

Thank you.

It is that which grates most for me.

If I, and I regret that I am guilty of it, am contemptuous of Christians on this forum nit is wholey and solely becasue of that contempt that they show my beliefs.

I know that I keep banging on about this, but I really find it almost impossible to understand why it is that they can hold their beliefs in such high regard and all others in some degre of contempt andf yet get so irate, to the point of incandescence inm some cases, when the same contempt is directed against theirs.

And this is the "banging on" bit, when both their beiefs and mine are both matters of faith and not fact!

[Owlswing]

Give it time, Owl.

People tend to forget the Faith Sharing area, preferring the cut and thrust of the Christian and R&E sections.

Ad_o has had the same problem with his Orthodoxy thread but I'm hoping others will join in.

That's life I'm afraid but it's not personal.

NS will no doubt be back to make sure your respondents are behaving and to add a bit, and Anchorman makes wondrous posts (still trying to work out the one he did last night  ).

I can't see the people you have mentioned being interested, quite honestly;  I could be wrong of course.
T8 might be, Gonners and Prof Davey.   They probably haven't noticed it yet.

Perhaps, if the subject comes up elsewhere, you could point people in this direction.  I will.

Oh I understand that a topic such as this is not of interest to everyone.

I will be perfectly honest, I am amazed, and grateful, that those who have responded were gracious enough to do so.

I suppose, though, that those I have mentioned will not venture to this thread as they are well aware that their opinions, well posted elsewhere, will, like Sassy's, inevitably be "Off topic".

[Sebastian Toe]

Studied it longer than 10 years

Wow, longer than 10 years study.
That's getting up to professor level had it been done formally at uni.
You must be what might be called an expert on the subject?
Well done you, 10 years.
How many books did read on the subject over that term? It must have been hundreds!
Just.....Wow!


However I suppose that on this forum it is probably best left to ask questions of any real expert ie someone who has been in the thick of it so to speak, by actually practising and living the life,  - someone like, say  - Owlswing?

I believe there is too much having researched it for ONE person to know more or better than those in the thick of it.

.....oh, you agree.....
Phew!

[Bubbles]

I know what passes as Paganism is extremely wide and covers a huge range of different beliefs.

I realise witches don't fly on broomsticks, have crooked noses, and a black cat which talks, ....... A lot of assumptions come from movies who like being dramatic and create a fearful picture.

Most Pagans I've met in RL just have a high regard for nature and are very individual.

One thing I have noticed is it's almost impossible to be an expert on it, because it is so " individual"

There are no set beliefs exactly, or what there are seem to be centred round old beliefs.

I suppose learning about one group, won't help me understand another group.

Nature and the seasons, tides and circles of life seem to be the things that binds them together.

Of course that varies as well, depending on where you are located.

🙂

[Owlswing]

I know what passes as Paganism is extremely wide and covers a huge range of different beliefs.

I realise witches don't fly on broomsticks, have crooked noses, and a black cat which talks, ....... A lot of assumptions come from movies who like being dramatic and create a fearful picture.

Most Pagans I've met in RL just have a high regard for nature and are very individual.

One thing I have noticed is it's almost impossible to be an expert on it, because it is so " individual"

There are no set beliefs exactly, or what there are seem to be centred round old beliefs.

I suppose learning about one group, won't help me understand another group.

Nature and the seasons, tides and circles of life seem to be the things that binds them together.

Of course that varies as well, depending on where you are located.

🙂

The first six words of your post have puzzled me. 'What passes for paganism' suggests that you do not consider what I and others practice to be 'real' paganism.

Before I comment any further I would appreciate it if you would explain exactly what you mean by these words.

[Bubbles]

The first six words of your post have puzzled me. 'What passes for paganism' suggests that you do not consider what I and others practice to be 'real' paganism.

Before I comment any further I would appreciate it if you would explain exactly what you mean by these words.

I'm not sitting in judgement of your Paganism, Owlswing.

Its just that the definition of Paganism is so wide, people could disagree on what paganism is.

For example, are Hindus practicing Paganism?

Are other indigenous peoples practicing paganism?

Then you have secular pagans and atheist  pagans.


http://www.spiralgoddess.com/SecularPaganism.html

So when I'm saying what passes for Paganism, I'm meaning the definition is so wide it only really tells you the person has a special regard for nature.

I'm not saying you don't make the grade, but that your average atheist who has a deep regard for nature may not define himself as a Pagan.  But someone else might.

It's so wide it barely defines people as a group at all.

Does that help?



 

[Owlswing]

I'm not sitting in judgement of your Paganism, Owlswing.

Its just that the definition of Paganism is so wide, people could disagree on what paganism is.

For example, are Hindus practicing Paganism?

Are other indigenous peoples practicing paganism?

Then you have secular pagans and atheist  pagans.


http://www.spiralgoddess.com/SecularPaganism.html

So when I'm saying what passes for Paganism, I'm meaning the definition is so wide it only really tells you the person has a special regard for nature.

I'm not saying you don't make the grade, but that your average atheist who has a deep regard for nature may not define himself as a Pagan.  But someone else might.

It's so wide it barely defines people as a group at all.

Does that help?

Technically anyone who does not follow the three Abrahamic religions is, according to those three religions, a pagan!

Atheists are not as they neither recognbise nor worship any deity.

I know about the atheist pagans and all the other tags that have had "pagan" attached to them, they can call themselves what they like - I can call myself a scientist, or a bishop, or an anarchist --- it doesn't mean that I am any of those things.

[Bubbles]

Technically anyone who does not follow the three Abrahamic religions is, according to those three religions, a pagan!

Atheists are not as they neither recognbise nor worship any deity.

I know about the atheist pagans and all the other tags that have had "pagan" attached to them, they can call themselves what they like - I can call myself a scientist, or a bishop, or an anarchist --- it doesn't mean that I am any of those things.

🙂

Instead of me presuming, it's best I think, if you have the freedom to define yourself.

So assume I don't know very much.

I know I came across witchcraft as a child, but that's not really the same thing.

A child's view isn't necessarily understanding something.

🙂

[Owlswing]

🙂

Instead of me presuming, it's best I think, if you have the freedom to define yourself.

So assume I don't know very much.

I know I came across witchcraft as a child, but that's not really the same thing.

A child's view isn't necessarily understanding something.

🙂

The resurgence of paganism was a follow on from GBG's bringing the Craft into public view on the repeal of the Witchcraft Acts.

The problem there was that for his branch of the Craft, what he called, and is still called, Wicca to be accepted as a bona fide path he invented a long history for it. This was accepted as there was no real way to check what he said because of the secrecy that he demanded - he was a Freeemason after all.

Wicca had spread a long way by the time of his death and that was when the history started to fall apart and Wicca gained a myriad of rival paths.

There is no unification of pagan paths - it is each to their own and a lot of groups guard their independence jealously and militantly and I am afraid that attitudes like some demonstrated upon this forum make the determination of these groups to fight tooth and nail against the non-pagan world, and, in some cases, against some in the pagan world, just gets harder.