Faith in reason?

[Nearly Sane]

I think the need to defend our positions make taking more extreme ones likely.


http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/is-humanity-losing-faith-in-reason-1.2808930?platform=hootsuite

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think the need to defend our positions make taking more extreme ones likely.


http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/is-humanity-losing-faith-in-reason-1.2808930?platform=hootsuite

I'm afraid Dawkins' striding and strutting attacks on Christianity aided and abetted by the likes of Brigstocke and Gervaise predate those of Trump and his opponents.

[Sriram]

From your link....

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'In many fields, the experts have let us down. Science has arguably over-reached. And religion – something billions of people continue to hold dear – is frequently portrayed in secular society as incompatible with intellectual coherence if not sanity.

A related phenomenon is the modern penchant for reducing reason to just logic or scientific reasoning.

 The brain is seen as having failed us and so the gut is trusted instead.

“ reason is associated with a dry, scientific world view that has no place for emotion, intuition or faith. Logic is for robots, we are not robots,

‘We all know’ that psychology has shown that the rational mind is not in charge and that the unconscious, driven by emotion and automatic processing, rules.

...many of the champions of reason exaggerate its power and so ultimately weaken its appeal when people see that it doesn’t live up to the hype.

“Secularism is not about ejecting religion but ensuring that no comprehensive world view is privileged in the political domain, including atheism. So there is no need to ban religious symbols or clothes. What we must insist on, however, is that when we try to work out our differences together – which is what politics is – we have to try as hard as we can to speak in a common language, to appeal to shared values.

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Hey...I like this guy! 

[Nearly Sane]

I'm afraid Dawkins' striding and strutting attacks on Christianity aided and abetted by the likes of Brigstocke and Gervaise predate those of Trump and his opponents.

Non sequitur

[Walt Zingmatilder]

“Secularism is not about ejecting religion but ensuring that no comprehensive world view is privileged in the political domain, including atheism. So there is no need to ban religious symbols or clothes. What we must insist on, however, is that when we try to work out our differences together – which is what politics is – we have to try as hard as we can to speak in a common language, to appeal to shared values.

************

Hey...I like this guy! 

Me too..... he was writing sensible balanced stuff at the height of fame of the four antihorsemen of the antiapocalypse...or whatever they were called.

[Sriram]

A balance that is bound to be reached sooner or later, I suppose.

[Gordon]

Interesting article: I've read some of Baggini's stuff before.

I can see that reason might seem to some to be too 'clinical', but of course that may be the result of them insisting on applying human emotional responses contrary to where reason seems to lead: not that they shouldn't if they wish to, but it seem to lead them to the notion of there being some ineffable higher purpose or meaning beyond the limits of reason that, ironically, they can't reasonably substantiate.   

I suspect you are right NS - positions tend to be polarised, and we often see that here, and I suspect there is no clear middle-ground.   

[Nearly Sane]

A balance that is bound to be reached sooner or later, I suppose.

in the long run we are all dead so yes balance will be reached. I am more concerned with tomorrow

[Nearly Sane]

Much of this is, as ever in my opinion, covered in Hume. Too many people see the empiricism in Hume as being cold without seeing the balance of the limits on reason that he sees.

[Sriram]

Interesting article: I've read some of Baggini's stuff before.

I can see that reason might seem to some to be too 'clinical', but of course that may be the result of them insisting on applying human emotional responses contrary to where reason seems to lead: not that they shouldn't if they wish to, but it seem to lead them to the notion of there being some ineffable higher purpose or meaning beyond the limits of reason that, ironically, they can't reasonably substantiate.   

I suspect you are right NS - positions tend to be polarised, and we often see that here, and I suspect there is no clear middle-ground.

Hi Gordon,

On the contrary, I think it is the middle ground that we are attempting to reach. I am sure it can be done but perhaps not in one generation.  It is a matter of perspective not of information.

When we say that 'reason' cannot be applied in all areas....it is wrong to expect that this should be substantiated through reason. That is a conflicting argument.

Reason and logic are useful tools that we use.... but they cannot dictate the nature of reality that we live in. In fact they could limit our understanding of reality to a large extent. We should recognize this.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Gordon]

Much of this is, as ever in my opinion, covered in Hume. Too many people see the empiricism in Hume as being cold without seeing the balance of the limits on reason that he sees.

Indeed - reason has its place and also its limits: there is nothing in 'reason' to explain why I detest what I understand to be 'country and western' music - but I do anyway.

[Dicky Underpants]

Much of this is, as ever in my opinion, covered in Hume. Too many people see the empiricism in Hume as being cold without seeing the balance of the limits on reason that he sees.

Very much so!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Yep! I agree with Vlad and Sriram, I like this guys thinking.

“If we are debating Sunday trading, for example, the debate cannot be ‘my religion forbids it’ versus ‘your religion is false’… We need to bring to the table arguments, reasons and values that have a currency beyond our own religion or humanism.”

Correct, my arguments have never been religious, purely commonsense, one day when the world stops and smells the roses, any day, it does not need to be a Sunday, one day when humanity can say, no I am not a slave to consumerism, sure you can go online and order stuff, but it will never be delivered on a Sunday, why!! All deliveries are banned on a Sunday.

You can call it a Holy day or just a special day, but one day when we put humanity before the pound or dollar sign.

Oh! and by the way, the above post came from the heart or the gut, to hell with rational thought.

Gonnagle.

[Brownie]

Gordon: All deliveries are banned on a Sunday.

They are not down here, I've often had packages delivered by Hermes (not the winged god), and others.
Supermarkets deliver on Sundays too.

[Nearly Sane]

Gordon: All deliveries are banned on a Sunday.

They are not down here, I've often had packages delivered by Hermes (not the winged god), and others.
Supermarkets deliver on Sundays too.

Gonnagle rather than Gordon, and he is not saying that's how it is but suggesting how it should be.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is no time or period for personal, community or national reflection when the pace and intensity slows.

Have it so small shops can open...also cut the speed limit by 10 MPH on a sunday.