Evangelical extremist?

[Brownie]

Spud is wriggling, because he's trying to insinuate his homophobic ideas in, without actually saying, ew,  men having sex, ew, ick, or whatever the theological equivalent is.

Spud appears to think that SSM will somehow result in there being more homosexuals than hitherto  .
Methinks he protests too much.

[wigginhall]

Spud appears to think that SSM will somehow result in there being more homosexuals than hitherto  .
Methinks he protests too much.

Or will Spud going on about it, produce more gays?  Just joking, that's the Barbara Streisand effect.   It might increase opposition to homophobia, partly because of the strange contortions which Spud's thought processes seem to go through.

[Nearly Sane]

Spud appears to think that SSM will somehow result in there being more homosexuals than hitherto  .
Methinks he protests too much.

He's still upset about the lesbian who turned him down thereby acting unjustly.

[Spud]

Are you hard of thinking or what?

You have had it explained to you that everyday, people do things in their jobs that go against their conscience. All you are doing is pleading for special exemption on religious grounds. It won't work. Too many different issues intersecting would cause chaos.

I believe beating people up is wrong and if given a choice I would not treat or sanction the treatment of these scrotes, I do not have that choice - do I stop working for the NHS where these people are treated?

What is wrong with your thought processes that you can't grasp this?

I am cleverer than the average spud, but probably dimmer than most Trentvoyagers.

Religious institutions have been given exemption from conducting same-sex marriages. If it can be shown that a person (say for example a registrar) is a member of a religious institution ie there is evidence that he holds to the beliefs of it then I think he should also be exempt from laws requiring him to conduct such ceremonies. After all what is the point in allowing church leaders etc to act according to their faith but not allow their members the same right?

Happy New Astronomical Year (for tomorrow?), by the way 

[Aruntraveller]

Religious institutions not civil ones.

The fact remains if you are interested in treating everybody fairly then you have to allow them to act on their conscience whether it be a Christian one or a pagan one or humanist one, etc.

And if you do that it will be unmanageable. This is why we pass employment laws and in fact laws in general to try to encourage the smooth running of society. They don't always work - but as an aim it's no bad thing.

Anyway what if a member of the Church wants to carry out a same sex wedding are you going to allow that on the grounds of their conscience?

[Gordon]

I am cleverer than the average spud, but probably dimmer than most Trentvoyagers.

Don't know how clever the 'average spud' is, Spud, so that might not be something to boast about - but I commend your flash of insight in the latter part of your sentence

Religious institutions have been given exemption from conducting same-sex marriages.

Which is disgraceful - a license for them to continue with their homophobia.

If it can be shown that a person (say for example a registrar) is a member of a religious institution ie there is evidence that he holds to the beliefs of it then I think he should also be exempt from laws requiring him to conduct such ceremonies.

Nope - if their homophobia gets in the way of them doing there job then they should resign.

After all what is the point in allowing church leaders etc to act according to their faith but not allow their members the same right?

There is no point - these churches should also resign from acting as legal registrars.

[Brownie]

He's still upset about the lesbian who turned him down thereby acting unjustly.

I'd forgotten about that.  It goes some way to explaining his attitude though I would have thought a few years down the line that would have faded.   However:

Spud, It's quite immature and unhealthy to ponder on the personal lives of other adults;  such scrutiny is akin to voyeurism.   No-one here is a teenager.

There is a lot more to a person than their sexual orientation and choice of partner.   That fact is the same for all of us.

Speaking as a Christian (anyone not, please don't pounce), it's my belief that God looks at each one of us as a whole person, not just bits of us.  He made us, after all.  I'm pretty sure he is far more concerned with how we treat our fellow human beings in this life.

[floo]

If white racists were permitted to refuse to have dealings with people of colour in their workplace, would that be acceptable? No of course it wouldn't! I bet some racists may use the Bible to justify their evil bigotry! By the same token nasty bigotry towards homosexuals using religion as an excuse is totally unacceptable too.

[wigginhall]

Yeah, but Brownie, some Christians are riveted by the dangly bits.  Hee hee hee. 

[Brownie]

If white racists were permitted to refuse to have dealings with people of colour in their workplace, would that be acceptable? No of course it wouldn't! I bet some racists may use the Bible to justify their evil bigotry! By the same token nasty bigotry towards homosexuals using religion as an excuse is totally unacceptable too.

You are right that the Bible has been used to justify racism in the past. 
No-one would be allowed to discriminate in the workplace nowadays, thank goodness, I am old enough to remember when that sort of attitude was quite routine and, no, it was not acceptable then as it isn't now but it happened - likewise attitudes towards gays.

Yeah, but Brownie, some Christians are riveted by the dangly bits.  Hee hee hee. 

Or, in the case of the female sex, lack of dangly bits, lower ones anyway.  Hee double hee!   We are talking norty while the grown ups are out.  Which reminds me of a song by the legendary Flanders and Swann, also popularised by the Beverley Sisters:

http://www.cliff-colman.net/Flanders&Swann.htm

[wigginhall]

You are right that the Bible has been used to justify racism in the past. 
No-one would be allowed to discriminate in the workplace nowadays, thank goodness, I am old enough to remember when that sort of attitude was quite routine and, no, it was not acceptable then as it isn't now but it happened - likewise attitudes towards gays.

Or, in the case of the female sex, lack of dangly bits, lower ones anyway.  Hee double hee!   We are talking norty while the grown ups are out.  Which reminds me of a song by the legendary Flanders and Swann, also popularised by the Beverley Sisters:

http://www.cliff-colman.net/Flanders&Swann.htm

Well, lesbians don't seem to get people in a froth as much, do they?   I suppose lesbian s*x sounds like a big fun cuddle, whereas men in bed involves bottoms (excuse you, madam), and willies, and shock horror, some kind of coming together.   I am trying to defeat the inbuilt censor here, which doesn't like certain phrases. 

[Brownie]

I've never worked out what lesbians do, exactly, and am now too old to care.
I think they don't do anything much except cuddle in bed and share the household expenses.
Spud may be able to enlighten us!

[floo]

My mother's aunt married a man from Ghana, in the days when mixed race marriages were taboo. She had a little girl,  Mum offered to take the baby for a walk in her pram, when Mum was a young teenager. Mum said it was awful as soon as people saw the baby was mixed race they were very rude, and one person even spat at the poor child!

[wigginhall]

I've never worked out what lesbians do, exactly, and am now too old to care.
I think they don't do anything much except cuddle in bed and share the household expenses.
Spud may be able to enlighten us!

Do you remember that joke about gay marriage - finally, they get to have no sex and lots of rows, like the rest of us.   

[Brownie]

I can remember that attitude very well, floo.  It was shameful, especially to treat kids in that way.
Mixed race people were called, "Half caste", and viewed with suspicion;  folks seemed to notice that part of them before anything else!  Horrible.

There was also 'shadism', ie not too bad if they weren't too dark  .

How different things are now!   When you think of all the mixed race people around, on TV for example, a lot of them really gorgeous looking.  Makes me think people years ago may have been jealous  .

wiggi:  like the joke - and it is so true!

[floo]

As most know one of our adopted sons is of mixed race. There were many problems during the time he lived with us due to the appalling first nine years of his life in the care of a local authority whose lack of care system has been in the news in recent weeks! However, as far as we were aware, there was never any racism aimed at him at his schools or in the local communities in which we lived in the 80s.

[Brownie]

Things had improved by the 80s, floo, but there are some people who grew up earlier than that and were fortunate never to have experienced much in the way of racism.    The London Labour MP, Diane Abbott, said she didn't when she was growing up, which is good to know.

[Spud]

 "There is no point - these churches should also resign from acting as legal registrars"

I see. I hadn't thought of that. 

[Spud]

Gordon,

Regarding your point about religious organisations being exempt from same sex marriage, and this being a license for them to continue in what you perceive to be homophobia.

Do you know why this exemption was made? A link might be helpful - thanks.

[Spud]

Another question I have is, have you considered the fact that some people with same sex attraction are celibate or would like to walk away from homosexuality. Do you think a religious organisation which permits homosexuality would be an appropriate place for these people to receive the support they need?

[floo]

Another question I have is, have you considered the fact that some people with same sex attraction are celibate or would like to walk away from homosexuality. Do you think a religious organisation which permits homosexuality would be an appropriate place for these people to receive the support they need?

What is wrong with homosexuality?

[Gordon]

Gordon,

Regarding your point about religious organisations being exempt from same sex marriage, and this being a license for them to continue in what you perceive to be homophobia.

Do you know why this exemption was made? A link might be helpful - thanks.

It was part of the legislation in England & Wales (here in Scotland we have separate legislation, introduced later) whereby the C of E were forbidden to conduct SSM, thereby shamefully allowing them to maintain their discriminatory stance by exempting them from legislation by making it illegal for them to conduct SSM's.

http://tinyurl.com/zrq633k

[Brownie]

Nothing!

However it would be wrong for Spud, who isn't a homosexual, to dip his toe (or anything else come to think of it), in homosexuality.   I just wish he'd realise that what is wrong for him is right for others - a small minority at that so why worry?

He spends too much time thinking about it, imo.

[Gordon]

Another question I have is, have you considered the fact that some people with same sex attraction are celibate or would like to walk away from homosexuality.

I'm sure there are, but that is a personal matter for them and no doubt there are a variety of options for people to discuss their situation with supportive others should they wish to do so.
 

Do you think a religious organisation which permits homosexuality would be an appropriate place for these people to receive the support they need?

No idea: it depends on the person and what other options are available to them. For someone who takes religion seriously I'd have thought that non-judgmental religious organisations could well be useful.

Don't forget, Spud, homosexual people may well be quite happy as they are - just like heterosexual people.

[floo]

Nothing!

However it would be wrong for Spud, who isn't a homosexual, to dip his toe (or anything else come to think of it), in homosexuality.   I just wish he'd realise that what is wrong for him is right for others - a small minority at that so why worry?

He spends too much time thinking about it, imo.

I suspect some people who are frequently dissing homosexuality are actually gays in denial.