Author Topic: Cryonics  (Read 6510 times)

Hope

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Cryonics
« on: November 18, 2016, 08:10:14 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267

In view of this judgement, I wonder how much the family will be paying for - say - the next 20 years in order to keep this youngster's body cryogenically frozen?  Is it really good use of money, and is there really any evidence to show (as opposed to merely suggest) that the revere process can actually work after such a period of time - or longer?
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floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 08:30:17 AM »
It is very tragic.  I suspect it is extremely unlikely that people who are frozen in this way can be brought back to life, even if a cure for their illnesses have been found. Besides which, the bodies could be accidently defrosted, or the relatives unable to keep up the payments!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 08:51:29 AM by Floo »

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 08:50:17 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267

In view of this judgement, I wonder how much the family will be paying for - say - the next 20 years in order to keep this youngster's body cryogenically frozen?  Is it really good use of money, and is there really any evidence to show (as opposed to merely suggest) that the revere process can actually work after such a period of time - or longer?

So, Hope, you want to show your disapproval of this action and its support by the courts. I'm sure that you would really like to produce some overwhelming theological reason why it should be wrong but cannot so reduce yourself to cost accountancy. Is it really any of our business what the family will be paying? That is their concern - not our's.


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Hope

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2016, 09:38:40 AM »
So, Hope, you want to show your disapproval of this action and its support by the courts. I'm sure that you would really like to produce some overwhelming theological reason why it should be wrong but cannot so reduce yourself to cost accountancy. Is it really any of our business what the family will be paying? That is their concern - not our's.
No intention in bringing theology to bear on the issue, HH.  Rather, I'm unsure whether it can actually produce a practical outcome from a scientific perspective.  Unlike you, HH, my thought patterns aren't only based on theology  ;)
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Brownie

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 10:12:57 AM »
I just heard about that on the news.  It is so unusual for children or teenagers to be afraid of dying in the way that adults often are, they are generally more accepting, seeming to be able to live for the day. 

I wonder how much her parents influenced her in this decision.

Poor kid.  Hope it doesn't start a 'fashion' over here. 

I do wonder how successful the cryogenic method is, people are frozen for a very long time and one would think there'd be some deterioration.

Horrible.

Like Hope, I didn't think of this in theological terms.
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2016, 10:26:25 AM »
Rather, I'm unsure whether it can actually produce a practical outcome from a scientific perspective. 
Why mention the money side then? (twice).
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 10:30:28 AM »
I just heard about that on the news.  It is so unusual for children or teenagers to be afraid of dying in the way that adults often are, they are generally more accepting, seeming to be able to live for the day. 

I wonder how much her parents influenced her in this decision.

Poor kid.  Hope it doesn't start a 'fashion' over here. 

I do wonder how successful the cryogenic method is, people are frozen for a very long time and one would think there'd be some deterioration.

Horrible.

Like Hope, I didn't think of this in theological terms.

While I am cynical about the idea of cryonics, why is it horrible?

Brownie

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 11:17:35 AM »
I can imagine someone being 'woken up' with freezer burn on their extremities so bits drop off.
Horror movie stuff really.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 11:19:22 AM »
I can imagine someone being 'woken up' with freezer burn on their extremities so bits drop off.
Horror movie stuff really.
and I don't have to imagine people being killed in car accidents on a daily basis. Is car travel therefore horrible?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 11:26:18 AM »

floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 11:40:35 AM »
Even if it was possible to bring frozen people back to life, the world would probably be very different, and all the people they knew would be dead. They might be treated as medical experiments rather than people!

Walter

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 11:47:21 AM »
Even if it was possible to bring frozen people back to life, the world would probably be very different, and all the people they knew would be dead. They might be treated as medical experiments rather than people!
at this stage in human endeavour I think the medical experiment aspect is of paramount importance in the quest for knowledge.

floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 12:01:51 PM »
at this stage in human endeavour I think the medical experiment aspect is of paramount importance in the quest for knowledge.

Are you putting yourself forward as a guinea pig for this fanciful nonsense?

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 12:31:15 PM »
Are you putting yourself forward as a guinea pig for this fanciful nonsense?
That's a grest idea. I'm donating my corpse to science. Maybe I should specify this branch?
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floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2016, 12:36:51 PM »
I would be happy for my corpse to be used for medical science, but not for the nonsense scam I believe cryonics to be. Once a person is really dead they are not going to be resurrected in the future, however advanced medical science becomes.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2016, 12:38:50 PM »
I would be happy for my corpse to be used for medical science, but not for the nonsense scam I believe cryonics to be. Once a person is really dead they are not going to be resurrected in the future, however advanced medical science becomes.
argument by incredulity

Brownie

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2016, 12:48:13 PM »
and I don't have to imagine people being killed in car accidents on a daily basis. Is car travel therefore horrible?

Not to you  ;D, quite funny you mentioned that because I am frightened of car travel, have to take a sedative before a long journey which involves motorways or dual carriageways, can manage short journeys if I sit in the back.  I can't control thoughts that come into my head, wish I could!  I get 'the horrors' frequently and often quite irrationally, sometimes wake up in blind panic.  I have learned some coping strategies, which divert and calm (but that's my problem so I'll say no more about it).

Even if it was possible to bring frozen people back to life, the world would probably be very different, and all the people they knew would be dead. They might be treated as medical experiments rather than people!

Yes, the person may well not like the world they wake up in at all.
Just read a more recent post of yours, presumably the person is not dead at the time of freezing (?).

I wonder if anyone has been frozen for years and then woken up?  I know the technique, or something like it, is used for relatively short times for some surgical procedures, and embryos are frozen.

It must cost a bomb to have your body maintained, frozen, for donkeys' years.
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floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2016, 01:42:18 PM »
According to Wiki  Cryonics procedures can only begin after legal death, and cryonics "patients" are considered legally dead.

According to the lunchtime news, even if resurrection was a possibility it could be hundreds of years into the future, so who is going to pay for the bodies to stay frozen that long? Apparently a lot of companies are involved in cryonics in the US, and number of them are not fit for purpose!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2016, 01:45:58 PM »
According to Wiki  Cryonics procedures can only begin after legal death, and cryonics "patients" are considered legally dead.

According to the lunchtime news, even if resurrection was a possibility it could be hundreds of years into the future, so who is going to pay for the bodies to stay frozen that long? Apparently a lot of companies are involved in cryonics in the US, and number of them are not fit for purpose!

Yeo, I too am cynical about the controls, doesn't mean that it isn't possible which is what you said previously

Brownie

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 01:47:12 PM »
Oh right, so they are legally dead before being frozen.  Thanks for that, floo.

Thinking about it, they would have died of a serious illness and been very ill before death.  So on waking, they would be extremely sick and suffering. 

 Even if a cure had been found for their illness, the damage done to their body might be irreparable - and cures, eg 'wonder drugs' and new surgical techniques, don't always work, especially on someone who has been weakened by a severe illness.

Just a few thoughts to throw into the pot.
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floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2016, 01:55:24 PM »
Yeo, I too am cynical about the controls, doesn't mean that it isn't possible which is what you said previously

Well I don't believe it is possible.

Brownie

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2016, 02:03:48 PM »
I think it is possible, maybe not likely or safe but possible.
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floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2016, 02:09:56 PM »
I think it is possible, maybe not likely or safe but possible.

Hmmmmmmm! Oh well we won't be around to see it.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2016, 02:22:24 PM »
Well I don't believe it is possible.
And the argument by incredulity fallacy gets another outing

floo

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Re: Cryonics
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2016, 02:23:26 PM »
And the argument by incredulity fallacy gets another outing

Ehhhhhhhhhh? Plain English please!