Cryonics

[Brownie]

It means because something is beyond person's imagination, it cannot be true.

People used to believe the world was flat (some still do  ), because they could not envisage anything beyond what they could see.  So to them, a flat earth was the truth.

PS:  I too was thinking I won't be around to see it but cryonics has been going on for a many years so someone could be defrosted soon.  I wonder if it has happened already, haven't heard of it but it's slightly possible.

[Nearly Sane]

Ehhhhhhhhhh? Plain English please!

It is plain English and gets pointed out a lot on here.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

[Walter]

Well I don't believe it is possible.

that's the kind of comment my old grandmother used to make, with quite some authority.

[Brownie]

I can imagine!
My mum used to say, "I've never heard of such a thing, you're imagining it!", with equal authority.

[Walter]

that's the kind of comment my old grandmother used to make, with quite some authority.

and this is quite funny
she once asked me what id been studying at school, I said 'physics'  there was a pause and she replied 'what, that stuff you take for an upset stomach?; er, yes gran.

[Sriram]

Oh right, so they are legally dead before being frozen.  Thanks for that, floo.

Thinking about it, they would have died of a serious illness and been very ill before death.  So on waking, they would be extremely sick and suffering. 

 Even if a cure had been found for their illness, the damage done to their body might be irreparable - and cures, eg 'wonder drugs' and new surgical techniques, don't always work, especially on someone who has been weakened by a severe illness.

Just a few thoughts to throw into the pot.

Yes...and after battling all these odds, the guy will find himself in a totally different society in which he knows no one and is related to no one. A complete 'odd one out'.  What work will he do, how will he acquire the knowledge required?  They may have to build a home for such people from another century.

And finally when he does die again (he has to sometime I guess)...will he get frozen again for another 200 years or will he just die like the rest of us?!

And how do we know technology is going to keep advancing anyway. It could just stop due to some natural disaster or human degeneration. 

[floo]

I don't believe cryonics has any merit, but of course I could be wrong. But as I have said previously, if I am wrong, I won't know, nor will other posters on this forum as we will be dead and gone well before then.

[Walter]

Yes...and after battling all these odds, the guy will find himself in a totally different society in which he knows no one and is related to no one. A complete 'odd one out'.  What work will he do, how will he acquire the knowledge required?  They may have to build a home for such people from another century.

And finally when he does die again (he has to sometime I guess)...will he get frozen again for another 200 years or will he just die like the rest of us?!

And how do we know technology is going to keep advancing anyway. It could just stop due to some natural disaster or human degeneration.

perhaps think of it as not the whole person but the body parts being useful in the future.

[floo]

perhaps think of it as not the whole person but the body parts being useful in the future.

Now that could be a good idea.

[Brownie]

I don't believe cryonics has any merit, but of course I could be wrong. But as I have said previously, if I am wrong, I won't know, nor will other posters on this forum as we will be dead and gone well before then.

You might not be!  As I said before, cryonics has been going on for a long time, someone could be defrosted any minute and it might have happened already.

Body parts for research is OK but could I be frozen and defrosted without 'coming back to life'?  (I feel a song coming on.)  I suppose that's possible.

[Udayana]

...
And finally when he does die again (he has to sometime I guess)...will he get frozen again for another 200 years or will he just die like the rest of us?!
...

Refreezing after thawing will reduce quality and can be unsafe. Meat can be refrozen if cooked immediately after thawing

[Walter]

Refreezing after thawing will reduce quality and can be unsafe. Meat can be refrozen if cooked immediately after thawing

especially human! or chicken

[ippy]

Can't remember exactly but I think its got something to do with the low temperatures breaking down the cell walls something like that, I've heard that it very unlikely be successful.

Maybe something like a Jurassic park formula, is the nearest we will get to resurrections of this kind.

ippy 

[Hope]

Why mention the money side then? (twice).

Well, people are - I assume - spending a lot of their money on something that has doubtful scientific pedigree.  I think that referring to money in this context is worthwhile.  By the way, if I was going to approach this issue from a theological perspective, the money issue would probably have been further down the list of my concerns.

[Hope]

at this stage in human endeavour I think the medical experiment aspect is of paramount importance in the quest for knowledge.

Walter, is there a case for arguing that medical scientists are more interested in pushing bounds of knowledge than trying to develop existing knowledge - perhaps at a lower level than the more exciting aspects?

[Walter]

Walter, is there a case for arguing that medical scientists are more interested in pushing bounds of knowledge than trying to develop existing knowledge - perhaps at a lower level than the more exciting aspects?

try that again so I can understand it

[Jack Knave]

Lets hope there's not a power cut. How insane!!!

[Hope]

try that again so I can understand it

I'll try to make it easier by giving an example.  There are diseases that are extremely prevalent in the developing world which, if resolved/a cure found for could mean that the average life expectancy in such places would rise above the WHO's 50 year-old 'barrier' above which contraception becomes an accepted option.  However, pharmaceutical companies and medical scientists seem more interested in the money that can be earned from working on developed world conditions, because the money that they can earn from that is far greater than anything they can earn from treatments for the more common developing nation conditions.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38012267

In view of this judgement, I wonder how much the family will be paying for - say - the next 20 years in order to keep this youngster's body cryogenically frozen?  Is it really good use of money, and is there really any evidence to show (as opposed to merely suggest) that the revere process can actually work after such a period of time - or longer?

FWIW I don't think that the cryogenically frozen dead can be resusitated. But IMHO what is most important here is that the unfortunate young lady in question fell into her final sleep with at least a glimmer of hope that one day she may wake up again. If it eased her final days, it did some good.

[Sriram]

For all we know, the girl may be watching from above... her body being placed in the freezer and wondering ...'why the heck did I worry so much about my body....I don't need it at all'. 

BTW...the subject should be 'Cryogenics' not 'Cryonics'...right!? 

[Brownie]

Yes you are right, Sririam.  I assumed "Cryonics" was an abbreviation.

The case was on the news last night and it was very sad.  Then the report moved on to the cryogenics business, explaining the process and showing the big freezers; I wished I hadn't seen and listened to all that, quite honestly, but I did. It really is a big business and, apparently, the first man to be frozen was fifty years ago.  There are currently three hundred and something bodies frozen.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It is plain English and gets pointed out a lot on here.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

How the same guy who suggests so many brilliant sites can be giving Rationalwiki the thumbs up beats me.

[Sriram]

Yes you are right, Sririam.  I assumed "Cryonics" was an abbreviation.

The case was on the news last night and it was very sad.  Then the report moved on to the cryogenics business, explaining the process and showing the big freezers; I wished I hadn't seen and listened to all that, quite honestly, but I did. It really is a big business and, apparently, the first man to be frozen was fifty years ago.  There are currently three hundred and something bodies frozen.

Reflects on the prevailing culture in many places.  What a pity.  We really must stop thinking of ourselves as the body. We are spirits who takes on bodies to have experiences.

And it is not just about religious belief.  There is significant evidence for this, if only we are able to see it!   

[floo]

Reflects on the prevailing culture in many places.  What a pity.  We really must stop thinking of ourselves as the body. We are spirits who takes on bodies to have experiences.

And it is not just about religious belief.  There is significant evidence for this, if only we are able to see it!   

Yeh right!

[Enki]

For all we know, the girl may be watching from above... her body being placed in the freezer and wondering ...'why the heck did I worry so much about my body....I don't need it at all'. 

BTW...the subject should be 'Cryogenics' not 'Cryonics'...right!?

Actually both terms are perfectly acceptable in this context. Cryogenics however has another, more scientifically based meaning.