Author Topic: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?  (Read 1839 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« on: November 19, 2016, 10:00:54 AM »
I see the meejah is continuing in it's usual ''rails bad wheels good'' mode with phone footage of a tram driver dozing off. Mind you would you a) knock on the cab to wake the driver up or b) start filming?

Brownie

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 10:19:18 AM »
Wake him up of course!  That is exactly what I thought when I saw the news item which was quite frightening.

It's possible the driver has something wrong with him which causes him to fall asleep suddenly.  I hope the tram company give him a thorough medical before sacking him.

The tram involved in the accident in Croydon was going way too fast.

(I've never been on a tram.)
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 10:25:15 AM »
Wake him up of course!  That is exactly what I thought when I saw the news item which was quite frightening.

It's possible the driver has something wrong with him which causes him to fall asleep suddenly.  I hope the tram company give him a thorough medical before sacking him.

The tram involved in the accident in Croydon was going way too fast.

(I've never been on a tram.)
Edinburgh trams are great.

Brownie

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 03:55:16 PM »
If ever I go up to the Festival, I will try one, Spoof.

I read a bit in the 'meejah' at lunch time while I was in a cafe;  the tram company say that the film cannot be accurate because brakes are applied automatically after three minutes if no pressure is put on the 'dead man's handle', which is what happens if the driver relaxes, as in snoozes.  When I read it, it seemed feasible enough but now I am repeating it, I'm not so sure  ???.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2016, 06:15:49 PM »
I suspect that you have misread the article accompanying your cafe lunch. Three minutes is an extremely long time for a dead man's handle to operate. Ten seconds would be a long time.

In three minutes the tram could have run for well over a mile.
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Brownie

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 08:26:38 PM »
More likely I haven't remembered it properly.  The figure 3 has stayed in my mind.
I'll look it up.
----
Haven't found the article but here is an extract from BBC news:

"The key safety feature is a vigilance device, known in the railway industry as the "dead man's lever" - a device that brakes automatically if the driver is incapacitated.

Mr Braddock said: "On the tram control lever there is a button which the driver presses at least every 30 seconds. If that button is not pressed the brakes are applied automatically."
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 09:03:50 AM »
Thirty seconds is a rather long period in a supposedly fail-safe system. I wonder if people are confusing devices designed to maintain concentration and alertness with tradition "dead man's switch" devices. Pressing a button every thirty seconds or so will not prevent disasters occurring during the thirty second period.

On many railway systems the driver has to maintain a constant pressure on a lever to prevent emergency brakes being applied. I believed that this was present in Underground trains. When I was much younger than I am now, I frequently travelled in a diesel multiple unit train running between Grantham and Nottingham. I liked to sit in the front coach and see the driver and the track ahead. On one occasion I recall the driver reaching for a leather shoulder bag, hanging it on the control lever then getting up and walking to his jacket that was hanging from a hook on the other side of the cab. He took something from his pocket and returned to his seat and then removed the bag and carried on as normal.

I suspect this behaviour was routine amongst drivers.

The paradox now is that it is entirely feasible to have totally automatic rail operation which may well be inherently safer than human operated systems. Such systems are likely to be perceived negatively by the general public who require the reassurance of a human operator.
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jeremyp

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 02:04:52 PM »
I see the meejah is continuing in it's usual ''rails bad wheels good'' mode with phone footage of a tram driver dozing off. Mind you would you a) knock on the cab to wake the driver up or b) start filming?
I never thought of that angle before. The man filming was putting his own life in danger and those of everybody else on the tram.
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Brownie

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 02:20:18 PM »
HH: Thirty seconds is a rather long period in a supposedly fail-safe system.

Yes it is, when you think about it, eg put the microwave on for 30 secs and it is quick but you still have time to do one or two things.

I wish the person making the film had given the driver a shake!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 02:26:31 PM »
I never thought of that angle before. The man filming was putting his own life in danger and those of everybody else on the tram.
Is there some form of the bystander effect here, exacerbated by the filming somehow distancing the person filming? Because I am really struggling with the idea of just filming it and not thinking 'wake up, mate, I could die here!'

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2016, 02:35:05 PM »
Is there some form of the bystander effect here, exacerbated by the filming somehow distancing the person filming? Because I am really struggling with the idea of just filming it and not thinking 'wake up, mate, I could die here!'
I think.....on the sound track, another passenger expresses concern that he may not wake up before the next stop......again, why that conversation piece and not the ''wake up'' one

Walter

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 03:18:51 PM »
Is there some form of the bystander effect here, exacerbated by the filming somehow distancing the person filming? Because I am really struggling with the idea of just filming it and not thinking 'wake up, mate, I could die here!'
from what I understand the fail-safe time is 3 seconds.

Hope

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 07:14:58 PM »
Wake him up of course!  That is exactly what I thought when I saw the news item which was quite frightening.

It's possible the driver has something wrong with him which causes him to fall asleep suddenly.  I hope the tram company give him a thorough medical before sacking him.

The tram involved in the accident in Croydon was going way too fast.

(I've never been on a tram.)
The medics who attended the site and after have said that there was nothing wrong with the driver, that he was in good health.  Perhaps, more importantly, is the the issue of train- and tram-driving.  As there is no steering which the driver has to be constantly awake for - as there would be in a car or truck - a driver of such vehicles can become disassociated with the fact that they are in control.  There are no streetlights, very few 'roadsigns', the headlights' reach is way less than the time it takes the brakes to even bite. A friend of mine who drives trains describes it thus:
Quote
(Drivers are) land locked pilots, often looking out for the silhouette of a farmhouse chimney or miniscule piece of lineside equipment as our waymarker as when to start braking.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Can trams cause cancer and bring the value of your house down?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 08:13:00 PM »
The medics who attended the site and after have said that there was nothing wrong with the driver, that he was in good health.  Perhaps, more importantly, is the the issue of train- and tram-driving.  As there is no steering which the driver has to be constantly awake for - as there would be in a car or truck - a driver of such vehicles can become disassociated with the fact that they are in control.  There are no streetlights, very few 'roadsigns', the headlights' reach is way less than the time it takes the brakes to even bite. A friend of mine who drives trains describes it thus:
And yet trams and trains are evidentially safer than cars or trucks.

Why do posts like this make it seem like it's preferable for other transport users to be killed by private drivers.