Author Topic: Buck House renovations  (Read 5086 times)

Hope

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Buck House renovations
« on: November 21, 2016, 07:10:28 PM »
Could have sworn there was a thread already on this, but can't find one.

This article makes interesting points

http://www.unilad.co.uk/pics/heres-how-much-money-the-queen-has-given-the-government/
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Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 08:52:04 PM »
iTmatters not one bean how much cash the unelected monarchy brings in - though I'd dispute the figures. No-one has actually given me a reasonable answer as to why I should defer to a person whose rank, role, style and title were not earned or conferred, who has not been elected or chosen, but who holds her title because of an accident of birth.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Brownie

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 09:03:06 PM »
You don't have to defer to the Queen, Anchorman, if you feel that way, but I don't see this thread has much to do with that.  It's about who pays for the renovation of Buckingham Palace which doesn't belong to the Queen anyway though she does live in part of it.

That is a very interesting article, Hope, thanks.
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Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 09:35:30 PM »
With respect, Brownie, the fact of an unelected head of state has EVERYTHING to do with it. The present monarch has numerous places to plant herself - one less makes not a jot of difference. If the place falls to bits, then, let it. I understand tourists go wild for picturesque ruins.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Brownie

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 10:48:44 PM »
I suggest you work out what amount of your tax goes towards the upkeep of Buckingham Palace and refuse to pay it.  Joan Baez refused to pay the proportion of tax that went towards funding the Vietnam war and was prepared to go to prison for that.  She was much admired and many would admire you for taking a similar stance on this issue.
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Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 11:03:49 PM »
We already have an official residence here - Holyroodhouse. We don't need to pay for one in London. Besides that, The monarchy is an irrelvence, anachronistic and no more than a tourist magnet for the gullible which serves no useful purpose.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ekim

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 10:16:33 AM »
We already have an official residence here - Holyroodhouse. We don't need to pay for one in London. Besides that, The monarchy is an irrelvence, anachronistic and no more than a tourist magnet for the gullible which serves no useful purpose.
Some might say that a tourist magnet is a useful purpose.  Some might also say 'Christianity is an irrelevance, anachronistic and no more than a magnet for the gullible which serves no useful purpose.'

Walter

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 12:47:59 PM »
Some might say that a tourist magnet is a useful purpose.  Some might also say 'Christianity is an irrelevance, anachronistic and no more than a magnet for the gullible which serves no useful purpose.'
I would say that.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 12:52:52 PM »
I would say that.
How would such a thing arise in an evolutionary way then?

Walter

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 01:14:26 PM »
How would such a thing arise in an evolutionary way then?
NS

Half the population are stupid the other half don't know they are. Could that be a hypothesis? (see what I did there?)

Brownie

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 06:31:08 PM »
NS: How would such a thing arise in an evolutionary way then?

Half the population are stupid the other half don't know they are. Could that be a hypothesis? (see what I did there?)

Think so, you used two question marks when one would do and it should be after the brackets? 
Unless you were starting a new sentence, as an 'aside', hence the brackets, in which case, "See", would have a capital 'S'.
(A credible theory?)
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Hope

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 07:34:31 PM »
iTmatters not one bean how much cash the unelected monarchy brings in - though I'd dispute the figures. No-one has actually given me a reasonable answer as to why I should defer to a person whose rank, role, style and title were not earned or conferred, who has not been elected or chosen, but who holds her title because of an accident of birth.
That is a very different discussion to that of the cost of renovating Buck House, Jim.  Remember that Buck House actually belongs to the nation, not the monarch.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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Hope

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 07:43:15 PM »
With respect, Brownie, the fact of an unelected head of state has EVERYTHING to do with it. The present monarch has numerous places to plant herself - one less makes not a jot of difference. If the place falls to bits, then, let it. I understand tourists go wild for picturesque ruins.
Unfortunately, Jim, whether or not the head of state is a monarch or president, (s)he will need a building that will serve as an official residence, as a focus for state events (such as visits from other heads of state) and as a focus for the British people (or whoever is left after any independence votes).  As things stand, that needs to be in London (or in any independent nation Edinburgh or Cardiff).  Even if they were to find an alternative, is allowing a place such as Buck House to go to ruin good strategy when it could be converted - in time - into accommodation for the homeless or the 'just managing'?
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

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Hope

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 07:45:58 PM »
We already have an official residence here - Holyroodhouse. We don't need to pay for one in London. Besides that, The monarchy is an irrelvence, anachronistic and no more than a tourist magnet for the gullible which serves no useful purpose.
And what relevance does a president or some other sort of head of state have?  Perhaps the Prime Minister (be that of the UK, or Scotland/England/Wales) should be the head of state.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 08:37:07 PM »
There are plenty of historic piles which can serve as backdrops for chocolate box touristy flummery, Hope. The place on the Mall is one too many. As far as the debate over monarchy versus republic goes? Yes, a figurehead rubber stamp is needed for state rigmarole. However a figurehead rubber stamp elected by, and responsible to, the people is worthy of respect. A figurehead rubber stamp by accident of genetics is not.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Keith Maitland

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2016, 03:34:21 AM »
It will cost an estimated £369 million to refurbish Buckingham Palace (Mail), but the final bill will probably top £400 million. What a scandalous waste.

The Queen and her entourage should be moved into a five-star London hotel while the crumbling edifice is razed.

A modern 20-bed palace could be built with sufficient grounds to ensure privacy. The rest of the site should then be turned into gardens, open to the public free of charge.

A slimmed-down palace should be home to a slimmed-down Royal Family, with the rest of the toadies and hangers-on shunted onto the labour market to stack shelves at Tesco. This is the 21st century, not the 18th.

The days-of-Empire excess and pomp are long gone.

Prince Charles won’t like it, but he is free to go anywhere else and build his own pad — using his own money. The Outer Hebrides should suit him nicely....   ;D  ;D

L.A.

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2016, 07:52:57 AM »
I agree with many of those sentiments, there are too many non-essential Royals, but it could be argued that Buckingham Palace is more than just a home for the Queen. It's also a tourist attraction and venue for entertaining foreign dignitaries (but not a particularly comfortable place to live by all accounts)
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2016, 09:24:29 AM »
I agree with many of those sentiments, there are too many non-essential Royals, but it could be argued that Buckingham Palace is more than just a home for the Queen. It's also a tourist attraction and venue for entertaining foreign dignitaries (but not a particularly comfortable place to live by all accounts)

I suppose that Buckingham Palace could also be seen as a (very comfortable) prison for a 90-year old woman who due to the circumstances of her birth enjoys few of the personal freedoms the rest of us enjoy. Roll on the Republic. Discuss.
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Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2016, 09:37:05 AM »
It will cost an estimated £369 million to refurbish Buckingham Palace (Mail), but the final bill will probably top £400 million. What a scandalous waste.

The Queen and her entourage should be moved into a five-star London hotel while the crumbling edifice is razed.

A modern 20-bed palace could be built with sufficient grounds to ensure privacy. The rest of the site should then be turned into gardens, open to the public free of charge.

A slimmed-down palace should be home to a slimmed-down Royal Family, with the rest of the toadies and hangers-on shunted onto the labour market to stack shelves at Tesco. This is the 21st century, not the 18th.

The days-of-Empire excess and pomp are long gone.

Prince Charles won’t like it, but he is free to go anywhere else and build his own pad — using his own money. The Outer Hebrides should suit him nicely....   ;D  ;D
[/quote






OY!
What have the Hebridies done to deserve Chairlie Windsor?
Living less than three miles from his pet project of Dunfries House, we see enough of the twit here!
Can I respectfully suggest that he be redirected to Rockall?
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Sassy

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2016, 10:51:48 AM »
iTmatters not one bean how much cash the unelected monarchy brings in - though I'd dispute the figures. No-one has actually given me a reasonable answer as to why I should defer to a person whose rank, role, style and title were not earned or conferred, who has not been elected or chosen, but who holds her title because of an accident of birth.

GOD a good enough reason for you?

King James Bible
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.


Our Queen also believes and serves our God as King David and Christ the King of the eternal Kingdom did.

May be sometimes you should know the powers that be are ordained of God.


 But how can people who allow children and their families to be thrown on he street really understand how the world works?
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
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L.A.

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2016, 11:57:36 AM »
I suppose that Buckingham Palace could also be seen as a (very comfortable) prison for a 90-year old woman who due to the circumstances of her birth enjoys few of the personal freedoms the rest of us enjoy. Roll on the Republic. Discuss.
I thinks lot of people (myself included) have a lot of respect for the present monarch. I think when she shuffles off this mortal coil a republic will become a very real possibility.
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Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2016, 12:04:30 PM »
GOD a good enough reason for you?

King James Bible
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.


Our Queen also believes and serves our God as King David and Christ the King of the eternal Kingdom did.

May be sometimes you should know the powers that be are ordained of God.


 But how can people who allow children and their families to be thrown on he street really understand how the world works?






Sass: Brenda Windsor is a cypgher, a rubber stamp.
The monarchs of this so-called UK have had no real authority since Brandy Nan - who was the last to try and gainsay the will of the people.
The last twit who tried to asssert James VI's 'divine right of Kings' - Charles I - had his head chopped off for his troubles.
By the way, you DO know that James VI skewed his translation of Scripture - your beloved KJV - to suit his idea of kingship, don't you?
Why do you think it took an Act of Parliament to force the Church of Scotland to abandon the Geneva Bible and use James' adulterated effort?
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2016, 12:27:59 PM »
 I think, Sass, that you are under the misapprehension that the attitude toward the monarch is the same throughout the so-called UK - you are wrong, for all sorts of historical reasons. For starters, when the king was king of Scots alone, even then he was little more than first among equals with his court. The line of child monarchs ensured a semi-independent attitude persisted in Scotland, rather than the centralised monarchical power in England. At the Reformation, the monarch was never head or governor of the church in Scotland - When Charles I tried to be so, the war of the three kingdoms - sometimes called the English civil war - was the result. With monarchs reigning from London and abandoning Scotland, the populous became even less inclined to defer to an authority which was increasingly remote - and the cynical attitude remains. It might be worth noting that when the monarch opens Westminster's parliament, she sits on  a throne on a dais above her' subjects'. In Scotland, when the monarch attends the 'riding of parliament', she sits on a chair beside the presiding officer as the MSPs gaze down on her.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2016, 02:02:48 PM »

May be sometimes you should know the powers that be
Just who are 'the powers that be'??
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Sassy

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Re: Buck House renovations
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2016, 03:57:22 PM »





Sass: Brenda Windsor is a cypgher, a rubber stamp.
The monarchs of this so-called UK have had no real authority since Brandy Nan - who was the last to try and gainsay the will of the people.
The last twit who tried to asssert James VI's 'divine right of Kings' - Charles I - had his head chopped off for his troubles.
Quote
UK PARLIAMENT (CC)
The Royal Prerogative are a set number of powers and privileges held by The Queen as part of the British constitution. Nowadays, a lot of these powers are exercised on Her Majesty’s behalf by ministers – things such as issuing or withdrawing passports that, without the Royal Prerogative, would require an act of parliament each time.

Over time, the prerogative powers have been used less and less though the important thing in our Constitutional Monarchy is that they still exist, they remain a means of protecting democracy in this country ensuring that no one can simply seize power.

Victorian constitutionalist Walter Bagehot defined The Queen’s rights as, the right ‘to be consulted, to encourage and to warn’ – but these rights are not the same as her powers, as we will now see.

The Queen’s prerogative powers vary and fall into different categories…

POLITICAL POWERS

The Queen’s political powers nowadays are largely ceremonial, though some are actively used by The Queen such as at General Elections or are available in times of crisis and some are used by Ministers for expediency when needed.

Summoning/Proroguing Parliament – The Queen has the power to prorogue (suspend) and to summon (call back) Parliament – prorogation typically happens at the end of a parliamentary session, and the summoning occurs shortly after, when The Queen attends the State Opening of Parliament.
Royal Assent – It is The Queen’s right and responsibility to grant assent to bills from Parliament, signing them into law. Whilst, in theory, she could decide to refuse assent, the last Monarch to do this was Queen Anne in 1708.
Secondary Legislation – The Queen can create Orders-in-Council and Letters Patent, that regulate parts to do with the Crown, such as precedence, titles. Orders in Council are often used by Ministers nowadays to bring Acts of Parliament into law.
Appoint/Remove Ministers – Her Majesty also has the power to appoint and remove Ministers of the Crown.
Appointing the Prime Minister – The Queen is responsible for appointing the Prime Minister after a general election or a resignation, in a General Election The Queen will appoint the candidate who is likely to have the most support of the House of Commons. In the event of a resignation, The Queen listens to advice on who should be appointed as their successor.
Declaration of War – The Sovereign retains the power to declare war against other nations, though in practice this is done by the Prime Minister and Parliament of the day.
Freedom From Prosecution – Under British law, The Queen is above the law and cannot be prosecuted – she is also free from civil action.
JUDICIAL POWERS

The Queen’s judicial powers are now very minimal, and there is only really one which is used on a regular basis, with others having been delegated to judges and parliament through time.

Royal Pardon – The Royal Pardon was originally used to retract death sentences against those wrongly convicted. It is now used to correct errors in sentencing and was recently used to give a posthumous pardon to WW2 codebreaker, Alan Turing.
ARMED FORCES

The Queen’s powers in the Armed Forces are usually used on the advice of Generals and Parliament though some functions are retained by The Queen herself nowadays.

Commander-in-Chief – The Queen is commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces and all members swear an oath of allegiance to The Queen when they join; they are Her Majesty’s Armed Forces.
Commissioning of Officers – The Queen’s powers include the commissioning of officers into the Armed Forces and also removing commissions (when members of the Armed Forces salute and officers, they are saluting The Queen’s commission).
Disposition of the Forces – The organisation and disposition of the Armed Forces are part of the Royal Prerogative; the crown technically controls how the Armed Forces are used.
HONOURS

One of the main prerogative powers that are still used personally by The Queen these days is the power to grant honours. As all honours derive from the Crown, The Queen has the final say on knighthoods, peerages and the like.

Creation of Peerages – The Queen may create a peerage for any person – whether a life peerage or hereditary one, though hereditary peerages haven’t been issued for decades outside of the Royal Family.
Font of Honour – It is The Queen’s prerogative power to create orders of knighthood and to grant any citizen honours. From the Royal Victorian Order to the Order of the Garter.
MISCELLANEOUS POWERS

Other powers Her Majesty holds include:

Control of Passports – The issuing and withdrawal of passports are within the Royal Prerogative – this is often used by ministers on behalf of The Queen. All British passports are issued in The Queen’s name.
Requisitioning of Ships – This power allows a ship to be commandeered in Her Majesty’s name for service to the realm. This power was used on the QE2 to take troops to the Falklands after the Argentine invasion in 1982.



Quote
By the way, you DO know that James VI skewed his translation of Scripture - your beloved KJV - to suit his idea of kingship, don't you?
Why do you think it took an Act of Parliament to force the Church of Scotland to abandon the Geneva Bible and use James' adulterated effort?
 

Do you know that the Holy Spirit gives people the truth in the Kingdom of God.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


If they are not born of Spirit and Truth no version can save or help you.

Do you see how far off the track of truth you are?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 04:03:25 PM by Sassy »
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."