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Author Topic: End of an era  (Read 1606 times)

L.A.

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End of an era
« on: November 26, 2016, 08:42:43 AM »
Another 60's icon bites the dust.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-38114953

For some reason, he persisted way beyond his sell-by date. I'd imagine Cuba is in for some seismic shifts in the next few years.


(pedant repellent - yes, I am aware that his brother has been standing-in for the last few years)
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floo

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM »
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!
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Udayana

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2016, 09:23:02 AM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!
Nice. Is there anyone that requires more than a one-line dismissal?
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Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

floo

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 10:42:19 AM »
Castro certainly wasn't nice. I am old enough to remember very clearly the Cuban Missile crisis, when we came within a whisker of a nuclear war!
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Brownie

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 11:13:50 AM »
I remember that too, floo.
Was it because of Castro that we became so close to nuclear war?
He wasn't all bad, surely.
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Udayana

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2016, 11:34:42 AM »
Surely Kennedy and Khrushchev were more directly responsible?
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Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

floo

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 11:49:08 AM »
Castro was in Russia's pocket!
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wigginhall

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2016, 12:15:24 PM »
One of those ambivalent people, he raised health and literacy standards, but bumped off his opponents.    The idealization of him by the left now seems barmy. 
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L.A.

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2016, 12:51:06 PM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!

I imagine that he thought 'the end justified the means' -  but that end result wasn't so good for the Cuban people. He was quite a Lefty icon so I expect that there will be plenty of Corbynistas mourning.

From a personal point of view, he was a significant part of the backdrop to the 60's (and beyond) - so I guess his passing must be a reminder to many of my generation of our mortality.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 01:00:52 PM »
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2016, 03:10:54 PM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!

How would characterise Batista, then, whose regime he managed to overthrow?
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floo

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2016, 04:06:58 PM »
 I don't know much about Batista I was only nine when the guy was overthrown by Castro, it seems he was a nasty piece of work as well.
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L.A.

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2016, 05:15:51 PM »
He obviously had his fans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38117068
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L.A.

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 06:15:03 PM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
I don't know much about Batista I was only nine when the guy was overthrown by Castro, it seems he was a nasty piece of work as well.

It's the old story:

Young hero overthrows the evil dictator and becomes - an evil dictator.
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Anchorman

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 07:19:30 PM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!




I completely agree that many of his deeds were typical of a dictatorial regime of the era - but much that he did for his nation was - and remains - praiseworthy.
Never forget that the regime he overthrew was one of the most corrupt in the Caribbean, and that the corruption was ended by his, albeit draconian , measures.
I don't think your judgement is coorect, floo.
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Hope

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2016, 08:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Floo on November 26, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
Castro was a nasty piece of work and no loss to this world, imo!
Most of the commentators I've listened to today have pointed out that not only was the regime he overthrew corrupt, vicious and dictatorial in its own way, his early days in power saw a vast improvement in the lives of ordinary Cubans.  It was his refusal to believe that anyone other than himself was capable of bringing such improvements, and his later preference for Stalinist Communism that turned him into a disaster.  Remarkably similar to our much loved friend Robert Mugabe.
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Brownie

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2016, 09:00:14 PM »
I think that illustrates the point that it doesn't do to be in power too long.
Castro certainly started off very well and he only became so buddy with the Russians when the USA were, putting it mildly, hostile.

He did a lot of good for Cuba but after a time, he thought he could walk on water.  Like many others!

Still, RIP Fidel.
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Humph Warden Bennett

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2016, 09:57:56 PM »
He had this image as "The beard" but he never had a proper beard just a scraggly mass of bum fluff.

Just goes to show that you can think yourself into anything if you want to...

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floo

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2016, 08:20:29 AM »
Quote from: L.A. on November 26, 2016, 06:15:03 PM
It's the old story:

Young hero overthrows the evil dictator and becomes - an evil dictator.

That often seems to happen
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wigginhall

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2016, 03:14:34 PM »
Quote from: Brownie on November 26, 2016, 09:00:14 PM
I think that illustrates the point that it doesn't do to be in power too long.
Castro certainly started off very well and he only became so buddy with the Russians when the USA were, putting it mildly, hostile.

He did a lot of good for Cuba but after a time, he thought he could walk on water.  Like many others!

Still, RIP Fidel.

Yes, this has been one of the big flaws on the left, that they start off as champions of the people, then they begin to see themselves as the sole spokesmen of the people, then the people can take a hike, or in fact, are counter-revolutionary if they object.   
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Brownie

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 04:08:22 PM »
One sensible thing, as I see it, about American politics is that no president governs for more than two terms.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2016, 09:00:55 AM »
From my perspective, and many others I suspect, I could never get past this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/27/don-t-forget-fidel-castro-s-brutal-oppression-of-gay-people.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

The most salient point being:

Quote
But true freedom for Cuban gays will remain elusive as long as political freedom is denied to all Cubans
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Brownie

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Re: End of an era
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2016, 02:03:30 PM »
Didn't know about that, Trent.  It should be publicised more widely.

He's gone now, let's hope everything changes for gays in Cuba. 
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