A theological question for Unitarians

[ippy]

Yep. It stopped me in my tracks.... And took me away from the atheism I had espoused for a few years as well.

Sad.

ippy

[Walter]

Yep. It stopped me in my tracks.... And took me away from the atheism I had espoused for a few years as well.

If you had been talking about any other kind of experience, other than religion, in this way   it would probably have been treated as a mental illness

[Hope]

what's it like to see things that aren't there Hope? your life must be proper weird .

I, and others here, don't see things that aren't there, Walter.  As such, we are no different to you.

[Hope]

Sad.

ippy

What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it?  Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.

[floo]

What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it?  Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.

For me it worked the other way round. As a devout believer I came to the conclusion Christianity was not all that was claimed for it.

[Walter]

I, and others here, don't see things that aren't there, Walter.  As such, we are no different to you.

Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural.   Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.
My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I  run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.
I have no need for any god or any religion  I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .

[NicholasMarks]

Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural.   Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.
My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I  run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.
I have no need for any god or any religion  I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .

It's a shame that everyone doesn't get the same from Biblical study as others undoubtedly do. I get a wonderful sense of purpose, direction, and a state of mind which is light and caring with the realisation that many have chosen not to be saved from every conceivable distress that can be inflicted upon us.

When we also realise that Jesus was teaching us a science carved and hewn out of God's living waters it is doubly beneficial because we know that we are participants in that science...a science that gently snubs those who ridicule its author.

It should be clear by now that there are mechanics behind the known mechanics of our bodies and minds and upbuilding our spiritual nature a way of adding an extra dimension that otherwise suddenly goes missing...ceases to function in a strong, healthy, robust way...this is when Jesus Christ could say...'I told you so'...but what he actually says is repent and learn about the true nature behind all existence...and I (Jesus) will guide you.

[ippy]

What; sad that someone found atheism not to be all some claim for it?  Jim certainly isn't alone in that experience.

No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.

ippy

[Hope]

No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.

ippy

Sorry, ippy, but not being a believer in a 'big Ju Ju in the sky' I'm not sure what you're talking about.  I'm talking about real life.

[NicholasMarks]

No it's not really that Hope, it's always sad to see anyone turning their back on the rational and going back to the big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs, really sad.

ippy

Something we can agree on ippy...at last.

It's always sad, especially in this day and age, and especially with UFOs zig zagging all over our skies, to ignore an intellectual book which tells us plainly that we are part of a universal authority which is going to come and sort us out once and for all. It wont get into any arguments with us it will just let the planet come to a sticky end whereby all will be in jeopardy but this authority has promised to help those who are not totally oppressive, uncaring, without mercy, without the slightest desire to renew a healthy Earthly status, but just want to suck the planet  dry.

Like Ju Ju in the sky, these rowdy, couldn't care lessers, think that by screwing the planet to total destruction they are going to have their own way forever more because the kinder, more caring sort of people are defenseless but we have the highest authority in the universe on our side and a faith that will prove to carry us through to the end and into a new heavens and a new Earth...but don't let me hinder your plans.

 

[Hope]

Hope, you are different from me, my mind is not full of mythology and the supernatural.   Therefore my critical thinking skills are not clouded.

What makes you think that 1) my mind is full of mythology and 2) that your critical thinking skills aren't clouded?  After all, for there to be a 'natural' there must be something else to compare and/or contrast with it, likie there has to be white in order for black to exist.  In view of that, doesn't it suggest that your crit. thinking skills are somewhat flawed?

My life does not revolve around a base that influences how I  run my life . When I have difficult decisions to make I don't think 'what would Jesus do' its more a case of what's best for me and mine.[/quote]In many ways, I'm the same.  My first thought isn't 'What would Jesus do', but this is where I do differ from you, as 'its more a case' of what is best for society and humanity as a whole.  Perhaps that's what differentiates believers from non-believers?

I have no need for any god or any religion  I find the whole idea ridiculous to the point of stupidity.

Yet, I would be very surprised if you don't 'worship' something or someone.  It might be the car you own, your job, your partner, a sports team, money, success, ....  The list goes on.

So I would say we are so different that I might be of another species .

Well, I know for certain that I'm a human being.  What you might be, ...   

[ippy]

Sorry, ippy, but not being a believer in a 'big Ju Ju in the sky' I'm not sure what you're talking about.  I'm talking about real life.

Big Ju Ju in the sky type beliefs.

ippy

[ippy]

Something we can agree on ippy...at last.

It's always sad, especially in this day and age, and especially with UFOs zig zagging all over our skies, to ignore an intellectual book which tells us plainly that we are part of a universal authority which is going to come and sort us out once and for all. It wont get into any arguments with us it will just let the planet come to a sticky end whereby all will be in jeopardy but this authority has promised to help those who are not totally oppressive, uncaring, without mercy, without the slightest desire to renew a healthy Earthly status, but just want to suck the planet  dry.

Like Ju Ju in the sky, these rowdy, couldn't care lessers, think that by screwing the planet to total destruction they are going to have their own way forever more because the kinder, more caring sort of people are defenseless but we have the highest authority in the universe on our side and a faith that will prove to carry us through to the end and into a .new heavens and a new Earth...but don't let me hinder your plans
 

You're in a class of your own Nick, so the bible proves the bible is right? Keep taking the tablets Nick.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

You're in a class of your own Nick, so the bible proves the bible is right? Keep taking the tablets Nick.

ippy

Science must take into account every conceivable point of evidence to get to the best truth...The Holy Bible is such a point of evidence which is totally dismissed by most scientists so they are shirking their duties...however a simpleton like me can see clearly that that point of evidence is an indisputable and accurate account of how the entire universe works and why Jesus was resurrected...it was because his electric/spiritual body was indestructible...it had to go somewhere and like the specialist in these matters that he is he went down to the ether where we all go...snatched the keys of life and death out of Satan's hand and with a wonderful battle-cry which passed through the hearing of all the faithful through every generation since, showed us how we can be resurrected as well...stating those that follow me (accurately) will never die.

Of course there is much more to it than this but you aren't listening anyway.

[ippy]

It's a shame that everyone doesn't get the same from Biblical study as others undoubtedly do. I get a wonderful sense of purpose, direction, and a state of mind which is light and caring with the realisation that many have chosen not to be saved from every conceivable distress that can be inflicted upon us.

When we also realise that Jesus was teaching us a science carved and hewn out of God's living waters it is doubly beneficial because we know that we are participants in that science...a science that gently snubs those who ridicule its author.

It should be clear by now that there are mechanics behind the known mechanics of our bodies and minds and upbuilding our spiritual nature a way of adding an extra dimension that otherwise suddenly goes missing...ceases to function in a strong, healthy, robust way...this is when Jesus Christ could say...'I told you so'...but what he actually says is repent and learn about the true nature behind all existence...and I (Jesus) will guide you.

It might be a good idea Nick to go and have a serious think before you go asserting anything else only in your last post to me you conveyed that the readings in the bible prove the readings in the bible to be true; even you must realise this is absurd thing to try conveying, at any time, to anyone.

Nick, these thoughts of yours at the kindest, can't be seen or taken as straight thinking, you really need to get this sorted out for your own good.

ippy


 
 

[NicholasMarks]

It might be a good idea Nick to go and have a serious think before you go asserting anything else only in your last post to me you conveyed that the readings in the bible prove the readings in the bible to be true; even you must realise this is absurd thing to try conveying, at any time, to anyone.

Nick, these thoughts of yours at the kindest, can't be seen or taken as straight thinking, you really ned to get this sorted out for your own good.

ippy

You live your life according to the common sense of flesh and blood ippy...so do many more and it can be a rough, cruel existence, especially if you don't have a lot of money spare. So...ok...you have a compulsion for accidental nature...and all that it implies.

I, on the other hand, have read a compelling book. It tells me that there is a third dimension to each of our existences...it is spiritual and by upbuilding a spiritual dimension within us we have a closer relationship with the highest authority in the universe...and all that it implies.

Now...you can't contradict that book without giving it serious consideration because you will then find that evil has no natural rights over the planet's population...that is held by Almighty God and he isn't too pleased with the management over this joint. So...he will be looking to put things right and that evil management will resist...but we, who read the book, have prior knowledge and a righteous stance which makes us a little different, in that we are promised salvation....Worth considering when you realise this planet is creaking at the seams and can't support this level of greed much longer.

Phewwwww
 

[floo]

Many of us have given the Bible very serious consideration but don't see it your way, not even Christians.

[ippy]

You live your life according to the common sense of flesh and blood ippy...so do many more and it can be a rough, cruel existence, especially if you don't have a lot of money spare. So...ok...you have a compulsion for accidental nature...and all that it implies.

I, on the other hand, have read a compelling book. It tells me that there is a third dimension to each of our existences...it is spiritual and by upbuilding a spiritual dimension within us we have a closer relationship with the highest authority in the universe...and all that it implies.

Now...you can't contradict that book without giving it serious consideration because you will then find that evil has no natural rights over the planet's population...that is held by Almighty God and he isn't too pleased with the management over this joint. So...he will be looking to put things right and that evil management will resist...but we, who read the book, have prior knowledge and a righteous stance which makes us a little different, in that we are promised salvation....Worth considering when you realise this planet is creaking at the seams and can't support this level of greed much longer.

Phewwwww
 

This is your trouble Nick, either you can't or are reluctant to see the point, for your sake I hope it's the latter.

This post of yours is 99% irrelevant, your book or any other book like it, where this book, any book, espouses a particular point of view with various stories supposedly in order to back up the veracity of its points of view, it would be necessary to be able to substantiate the points of view it was conveying in the first place before it could be taken seriously; now remember Nick, this would apply to any book of this kind, which would include your bible, since there is no verifiable evidence to be had that backs up the magical, mystical and supernatural parts of your bible; think about it Nick.

Using any book to support the points of view in that same book would be considered to be a form of madness, dipping into serious La La land material, if that were that the case.

If for some reason you can't see this Nick, you're in trouble and should try to get some help.   

It's nothing to do with how wonderful you think your Jesus or god happen to be and the only electrics involved are in the running of your PC or Lap top.

ippy   

[NicholasMarks]

This is your trouble Nick, either you can't or are reluctant to see the point, for your sake I hope it's the latter.

This post of yours is 99% irrelevant, your book or any other book like it, where this book, any book, espouses a particular point of view with various stories supposedly in order to back up the veracity of its points of view, it would be necessary to be able to substantiate the points of view it was conveying in the first place before it could be taken seriously; now remember Nick, this would apply to any book of this kind, which would include your bible, since there is no verifiable evidence to be had that backs up the magical, mystical and supernatural parts of your bible; think about it Nick.

Using any book to support the points of view in that same book would be considered to be a form of madness, dipping into serious La La land material, if that were that the case.

If for some reason you can't see this Nick, you're in trouble and should try to get some help.   

It's nothing to do with how wonderful you think your Jesus or god happen to be and the only electrics involved are in the running of your PC or Lap top.

ippy

Perhaps ippy Almighty God wrote his book this way to appeal to those with the ability to read and extract the wonderful fruits of its instruction thus verifying the book for themselves and leaving those without an inkling to just stand at the door of righteous teaching shouting defamatory things. You can't discredit a serious written work whilst not bothering to read it and as it is a book of instruction giving those instructions a try as well. Then maybe, you will see the invisible force that is ever present in that instruction, and which, by our mishandling is the route cause of all our distress...just as that Holy book tells us. 

Every single thing in the universe is electrically powered yet we totally ignore our own electric powers letting it take care of itself or others with no interest in us manipulate it to their own advantage...that's what that book tells me and Jesus tells us how to take control of our own spiritual health at least...with a promise that the science offers much more.

[floo]

God didn't write the documents making up the Bible NM, it is a human construction.

[NicholasMarks]

God didn't write the documents making up the Bible NM, it is a human construction.

You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.

The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.

[ippy]

Perhaps ippy Almighty God wrote his book this way to appeal to those with the ability to read and extract the wonderful fruits of its instruction thus verifying the book for themselves and leaving those without an inkling to just stand at the door of righteous teaching shouting defamatory things. You can't discredit a serious written work whilst not bothering to read it and as it is a book of instruction giving those instructions a try as well. Then maybe, you will see the invisible force that is ever present in that instruction, and which, by our mishandling is the route cause of all our distress...just as that Holy book tells us. 

Every single thing in the universe is electrically powered yet we totally ignore our own electric powers letting it take care of itself or others with no interest in us manipulate it to their own advantage...that's what that book tells me and Jesus tells us how to take control of our own spiritual health at least...with a promise that the science offers much more.

Nick, while I can appreciate you like to think this, as you say, god of yours wrote this book of yours, the point you are either avoiding or are unable to see, there is now and never has been any evidence that would support, especially the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, the authenticity of this book of yours.

When and if you find verifiable evidence that would support your book, why wouldn't we all become believers?

Whining on about how wonderful the contents of your book are and keeping on about electricity, doesn't amount to verifiable evidence.

Whether I've read your book or not has nothing to do with the aspects of religion based beliefs, I'm trying to discuss with you so passing any kind of sermon in my direction has nothing to do with verifiable evidence, no matter how unlikely it is you have any to put forward that might support your religious belief.

Where's your verifiable evidence Nick? Don't do the stupid the bible is evidence for the bible one again, that's absolutely potty by any standard. 

ippy
   

[NicholasMarks]

Nick, while I can appreciate you like to think this, as you say, god of yours wrote this book of yours, the point you are either avoiding or are unable to see, there is now and never has been any evidence that would support, especially the magical, mystical and superstition based parts, the authenticity of this book of yours.

When and if you find verifiable evidence that would support your book, why wouldn't we all become believers?

Whining on about how wonderful the contents of your book are and keeping on about electricity, doesn't amount to verifiable evidence.

Whether I've read your book or not has nothing to do with the aspects of religion based beliefs, I'm trying to discuss with you so passing any kind of sermon in my direction has nothing to do with verifiable evidence, no matter how unlikely it is you have any to put forward that might support your religious belief.

Where's your verifiable evidence Nick? Don't do the stupid the bible is evidence for the bible one again, that's absolutely potty by any standard. 

ippy
   

Millions will disagree with you on that last point of yours ippy...and my scientific reasoning which states positively that the raw material behind all the mass contained within the entire universe has to be a pure, gentle, invisible, superabundant material, much like dark matter but with a much bigger bite, sort of doubles for God's Living Waters and by realising that this is the code behind all Biblical teaching as well as behind all science gives every supporter of Jesus Christ an extra dimension by which to validate Jesus' word from.

What this means of course is that when you come to realise that Jesus was showing you how you can be resurrected as well then you will get a little more serious about things you currently want to take exception to.

Everyone else has to start by faith so that must be your starting point as well, ippy...good luck.

[Sebastian Toe]

You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.

The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.

Billions of people will disagree with you on those points Nick!

[floo]

You keep saying that Floo, but I'm afraid you are wrong. If we take in all the facts that are available to us today it is glaringly obvious that a wonderful force is working in the background and what that force says goes.

The voice of that force has said he created this planet and it is his righteous laws that sustain it. Knowing there will be a day of reckoning he sent Jesus Christ to show us how to be saved and it all revolves around us all following those same laws that Jesus delivered. Failure to do so is at our own peril because not only are those laws the standard we must subsequently live by they are also the science that will save us. It's as simple as that really...no need to bother about what happens in the future other than making sure we are righteously fit for purpose.

You have not one shred of evidence to prove a god exists, let alone it wrote the Bible as you claim!