A theological question for Unitarians

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

I understand that Nicholas but there are times when we, as human beings, cannot get our heads together and a bit of unconditional help from another person, whether practical, prayerful or just kind words, is greatly comforting and calming.   Maybe you have grown beyond that sort of need but we are all different.

Jesus didn't hesitate to walk alongside others in their hour of need, seeing them as individuals, and I honestly believe that we must strive to do the same, quietly if possible.

Galatians 6 v 2 Nicholas Marks:

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

[2Corrie]

"righteous clout". Nicholas you have surpassed yourself.

[Brownie]

Sword, thanks for that passage which is spot on.  I will learn it!

I love this:

1 Kings 19:5-8

5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.

All at once an angel touched him and said, “Get up and eat.” 6 He looked around, and there by his head was some bread baked over hot coals, and a jar of water. He ate and drank and then lay down again.

7 The angel of the Lord came back a second time and touched him and said, “Get up and eat, for the journey is too much for you.” 8 So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God.

(NIV)

This really shows God's great care for someone who was depressed.   Food and rest, marvellous.

[NicholasMarks]

Nick I'll keep it simple for you, it obviously has to be simple more simple than I realised, in that last post of yours to me you wrote the following:

"Jesus taught us how to harness that same force...for health, repair and resurrection".

Well that's fine that you have chosen to believe this, what I would like to know is how you would go about substantiating that this Jesus chap of yours actually did say this, only I would say that nobody knows that he said any such thing and there is no evidence to be had that proves that he did.

You only need to explain where you have acquired this verifiable evidence and demonstrate how it does verify these were his words; now you should be able to answer this without an accompanying sermon, or anything sermon like either.

I now look forward to a concise answer without the addition of another crappy sermon, a straight answer would be much appreciated.

ippy

Your as good as Seb for going round and round in circles ippy but I feel sure that someone will actually listen and get the gist of Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.

Jesus said...and I quote...I am the way, the truth, and the life...those that follow me will never die.

Jesus followed Jesus and though his body, his flesh and blood, were brought to death in a vicious and violent way...spiritually he didn't die...he went to the graveyard in the ether as an electric being but it couldn't contain him...he was brought back to his own mutilated body and restored to life. Now...if Jesus did it and told us we can do it then this might be a good reason to follow him.

Many have genetics damaged beyond repair but that doesn't stop them from repenting and harnessing a righteous spirit...remember there are parts of our body we can afford to lose because it is better to lose them than losing the whole body to Gehenna...but our electric/spiritual/eternal existence can be reinforced, strengthened, made whole ready for resurrection to a new vessel...providing we can read that Holy Book you want to condemn and take advantage of a universal authority which tells us we are heading for a cataclysmic event which will see all those captured in the verses of Revelation 21:8 snatched from the Earth to reside in an electric form aboard a fiery place of torment forever more. We would all be going there except that those who read and follow that Holy Book according to the instructions Jesus taught us will have an ability to stand much firmer than those who ridicule and disbelieve that authority...remember...it is no skin off their nose who is saved except that Jesus promised the faithful...he would save them. But in the future there will be a much stronger control because those who are put in charge as leaders will be established adherents in righteousness. Many even resurrected as Jesus said.

   

[NicholasMarks]

"righteous clout". Nicholas you have surpassed yourself.

I write as I am inspired to write 2Corrie and this expression says exactly what it means. We are all oppressed if we let the mechanics of no control work its skulduggery. Our whole lives are over-ridden by the devious who seek to make their own prestige and fortune from the numbers of people they get hobbling to their tune.

Righteous clout means recovering some of our emotional strength for our own use and as this is the fuel that will feed our repair it will give the weakest with no clout a stronger voice because they are then in league with a strong leadership...Almighty God and Jesus Christ...plus all those who are also slating their genetic thirsts on God's Living Waters...now that's what I call righteous clout.

[ippy]

Your as good as Seb for going round and round in circles ippy but I feel sure that someone will actually listen and get the gist of Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.

Jesus said...and I quote...I am the way, the truth, and the life...those that follow me will never die.

Jesus followed Jesus and though his body, his flesh and blood, were brought to death in a vicious and violent way...spiritually he didn't die...he went to the graveyard in the ether as an electric being but it couldn't contain him...he was brought back to his own mutilated body and restored to life. Now...if Jesus did it and told us we can do it then this might be a good reason to follow him.

Many have genetics damaged beyond repair but that doesn't stop them from repenting and harnessing a righteous 7spirit...remember there are parts of our body we can afford to lose because it is better to lose them than losing the whole body to Gehenna...but our electric/spiritual/eternal existence can be reinforced, strengthened, made whole ready for resurrection to a new vessel...providing we can read that Holy Book you want to condemn and take advantage of a universal authority which tells us we are heading for a cataclysmic event which will see all those captured in the verses of Revelation 21:8 snatched from the Earth to reside in an electric form aboard a fiery place of torment forever more. We would all be going there except that those who read and follow that Holy Book according to the instructions Jesus taught us will have an ability to stand much firmer than those who ridicule and disbelieve that authority...remember...it is no skin off their nose who is saved except that Jesus promised the faithful...he would save them. But in the future there will be a much stronger control because those who are put in charge as leaders will be established adherents in righteousness. Many even resurrected as Jesus said.

   

Trying to get someone to answer a very simple question and presenting it in as many differing ways in the hope that even the simplist mind could handle or might be able to understand isn't cicular.

It's a simple enough question but I suppose some prefer close the eyes and la la la la la, rather than open them up to some of the realities in life.

No doubt you'll open up your portable lecturn and give us all another never ending sermon rather than a realistic consice answer, that is if you do ever answer things you don't like.

Come on Nick you'not as big a prat that you're pretending to be; where's your evidence that supplies verifiable evidence that would or could support the bible and prove for once and all that it is the authentic words of your suposed god figure whatever it is supposed to be?

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

Galatians 6 v 2 Nicholas Marks:

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:5

5 for each one should carry their own load.

I make this point tongue in cheek because you are of course correct SwordOfTheSpirit/Brownie...and in these end days it might be wise to listen to Jesus closer than to Paul, anyway, because it is Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life. It is really a mine-field because we want our prayers to be meaningful but the purpose of prayer isn't to appease a distressed spirit until they are well enough or strong enough to return to sin...it is to attach ourselves to God's Living Waters and lead others to it so that we can use God's and Jesus' righteous word to the max. in a continuum which doesn't stop until we achieve everlasting life...we are always encouraged to support each other.

[NicholasMarks]

Trying to get someone to answer a very simple question and presenting it in as many differing ways in the hope that even the simplist mind could handle or might be able to understand isn't cicular.

It's a simple enough question but I suppose some prefer close the eyes and la la la la la, rather than open them up to some of the realities in life.

No doubt you'll open up your portable lecturn and give us all another never ending sermon rather than a realistic consice answer, that is if you do ever answer things you don't like.

Come on Nick you'not as big a prat that you're pretending to be; where's your evidence that supplies verifiable evidence that would or could support the bible and prove for once and all that it is the authentic words of your suposed god figure whatever it is supposed to be?

ippy

The invisible things of God are seen by those things that are visible.

You are proving to me ippy to be unable to grasp righteousness...so don't worry about it too much.

If we look at it logically you are insisting that someone who has found all the truth he needs in life from the Holy Bible to prove that the Holy Bible is true without using the Holy Bible and that is unreasonable, illogical, and bordering on foolishness...but even so I will answer you.

All the science that I am able to understand which comes up into one enormous head called the Grand Unification Of All The Universal Forces is unified into one understanding, for me, if, and only if, we take the wonderful teaching contained in the Holy Bible into account. Not iniquity...not any other teaching, but the Holy Bible, and especially the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

Now you may think this is good fun chasing a silly old believer around a forum to show everyone just how clever you are but all you are doing is showing believers why they must cling to Jesus Christ at all times because there are forces out there which will snatch your pearls from you and grovel around the mud with them where they will be lost...That doesn't bother me too much because I have plenty of pearls.

[Brownie]

Galatians 6:5

5 for each one should carry their own load.

I make this point tongue in cheek because you are of course correct SwordOfTheSpirit/Brownie...and in these end days it might be wise to listen to Jesus closer than to Paul, anyway, because it is Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life. It is really a mine-field because we want our prayers to be meaningful but the purpose of prayer isn't to appease a distressed spirit until they are well enough or strong enough to return to sin...it is to attach ourselves to God's Living Waters and lead others to it so that we can use God's and Jesus' righteous word to the max. in a continuum which doesn't stop until we achieve everlasting life...we are always encouraged to support each other.

They might not return to sin, Nicholas.
Supporting someone, or some others, is a good witness.  We don't always need words. 

[ippy]

The invisible things of God are seen by those things that are visible.

You are proving to me ippy to be unable to grasp righteousness...so don't worry about it too much.

If we look at it logically you are insisting that someone who has found all the truth he needs in life from the Holy Bible to prove that the Holy Bible is true without using the Holy Bible and that is unreasonable, illogical, and bordering on foolishness...but even so I will answer you.

All the science that I am able to understand which comes up into one enormous head called the Grand Unification Of All The Universal Forces is unified into one understanding, for me, if, and only if, we take the wonderful teaching contained in the Holy Bible into account. Not iniquity...not any other teaching, but the Holy Bible, and especially the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.

Now you may think this is good fun chasing a silly old believer around a forum to show everyone just how clever you are but all you are doing is showing believers why they must cling to Jesus Christ at all times because there are forces out there which will snatch your pearls from you and grovel around the mud with them where they will be lost...That doesn't bother me too much because I have plenty of pearls.

All you're proving is you don't want to answer a simple question, you're so into your fantasy world, real life is to difficult for you without your comforter blanket.

You come up with more and more nonsense in bucket loads rather than give me a sensible answer Nick.

You've made it clear that you believe in this religion nonsense, so there's no need to include any of it in any answer you might give me.

Nows the time to give me the  answer the question given Nick, come on get on with it.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

They might not return to sin, Nicholas.
Supporting someone, or some others, is a good witness.  We don't always need words.

If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.

I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
 

 

[Brownie]

If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.

I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
 

Well, first off I am not going to look at any other poster in order to call them out for any reason.   This is a discussion forum, open to all, which means there will be diverse opinions.  If I don't like that I can go elsewhere.  There are exclusive forums out there - and jolly boring they are too!  If I joined one of those I would be tempted to be naughty.

As for being a wind-up, Nicholas, you've been accused of that more than once !   I didn't agree then, still don't, but you of all people should know what it is like to be given names by those who don't agree, or who just don't 'get' you.

However, I do agree that there are those who will exploit anyone who seeks to help them.   So we have to take care of ourselves.  Jesus gave us the commandment to love our neighbour as our self which means we must love our self.   We're no use to anyone else if we are not in good order.  It is also the case that those who are constantly self-sacrificing are often trying to fulfill their own needs which achieves nothing in the long term.  We won't be respected if we don't respect ourselves so, to a point, I am in agreement with you on that one.

Having said all that, if we are reasonably balanced, we can be good to others without being feverishly "do-gooding";  it will come about naturally.  We just have to be a bit wised up and know our limits - and our own weaknesses!  Then we can walk the extra mile.

The 'Good Samaritan' is a fine example of a seemingly ordinary person going about his business, who perceived a need and was prepared to cross the road to give aid with no fuss and without any conditions.  To him, it was the obvious thing to do.

[Sassy]

If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.

Yes! Look at Ippy.
What does lie behind his willingness to railroad and ridicule everything to do with religion.
Do you find it not strange that someone without faith spends so many hours reading and never learning?
Ippy should be lamented over...

I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
 

Great is he who is us, than he who is in the world.  It should lead us to pray fervently for such as Ippy for we know the heartache the truth will bring if when too late he learns the truth.
God loves us all, and we should be selfless as Christ was. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.  If eventually it serves to make him realise the truth that God is real. Then all the hassle will be worth it.

[NicholasMarks]

Brownie/Sassy...

What i am trying to say is that Jesus identified to us that we each have a spiritual nature. A real living electrical force which we can upbuild within ourselves as Jesus did and prosper in righteousness. It is important that we do because it is the abuse of our spirit which feeds evil and I have tried to show that working on low charge causes many health problems...yet no one has twigged. Your very best scientists are totally unaware that generating a strong spirit is generating a strong electric force with benefits like repair and resurrection clearly stamped upon it.

This leads to us examining all abuses of it because we see wife beaters, baby bashers, all bully's, all evil, following the same pattern of stealing it from their victims. Now if we are looking at things correctly we can take precautions against all bullying and the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is that best precaution.

I think that is very important and I think Jesus does to.

[SwordOfTheSpirit]

Sword, thanks for that passage which is spot on.  I will learn it!

You're welcome! 

I love this:

1 Kings 19:5-8

5 Then he lay down under the bush and fell asleep.

...

(NIV)

This really shows God's great care for someone who was depressed.   Food and rest, marvellous.

Yes, I like that passage too. God could have told him off, told him to get up and go where he was supposed to go, but He didn't. Instead, He let Elijah rest and recuperate and get his strength back first.

[ippy]

If we don't get righteousness right Brownie we can finish up enslaved by those we help. If we just give, many will just take. It is a two way offer...give righteousness conditionally because you might find you are being taken for a ride. Look at ippy. He has no interest what-so-ever except to railroad and ridicule everything we have got to say about Jesus. He has no understanding what-so-ever of the points believers want to discuss and is just on a wind-up jolly.

I could go on to show you how this tactic is at the root of all oppression in every manifestation of it...which is why we must upbuild our own righteous spirit first or as Jesus said...seek ye first the kingdom of God. Those that don't, even with the very best of intentions, finish up serving iniquity and not Jesus Christ at all.
 

I've no need to ridicule anything you say about Jesus or god, it seemsto be a problem you have, you can't get it that alll I'm asking of you is that you show where the evidence, you think you have is, only you keep on conveying the bible contains the words of god, but you refuse to enlighten us about where you have obtained the verifiable evidence that would back up this claim of yours.

I reserve the ridicule for your refusal to give a logical, rational answer, honestly, saying the bible proves the bible is true, think about it Nick, it doesn't come much more ridiculous than that; please note no ridicule of the bible but plenty of ridicule for your refusal to address the question to which I've been trying to extract an answer from you.

To date you haven't answered me Nick, all you've done is send sermon like statements that bear no relation to the question I keep trying to get you to answer, let's have the answer Nick?

ippy

[Brownie]

You ain't gonna get evidence, Ippy, there is none in the sense of there being anything seen or heard.

[floo]

You ain't gonna get evidence, Ippy, there is none in the sense of there being anything seen or heard.

In which case unbelief is reasonable.

[Brownie]

Of course.

[Dicky Underpants]

I write as I am inspired to write

Commonly known as 'free association', peppered with a few of your favourite buzz-words (which mean nothing).

[NicholasMarks]

In which case unbelief is reasonable.

It may be to you Floo...but not to Almighty God or Jesus Christ. Disbelievers are frowned upon because Jesus died and was resurrected so that there is no excuse for not believing. The Romans and the Jews disbelieve/d in Jesus and yet his teaching is the only way into 'Heaven on Earth'. There is no other way. We can't dodge it, ridicule it, or otherwise besmirch it, because it is pulled from a science that delivers all of Almighty God's and Jesus Christ's promises to those who align themselves with righteousness. There can be no exceptions.  It would be like telling a fish it must breathe oxygen from the atmosphere or a man to breathe oxygen from out of the water. We are electric/spiritual beings and all laws of science, of our emotions and of our desire for improvement are embodied in that fact. All you are saying is that you don't want any part of it and prefer the alternative...all I am saying is that the science will come to the forefront because it is accurate and many who haven't burnt their bridges will respond in due course.

It's a shame about the rest...but there we go.

 

[ippy]

In which case unbelief is reasonable.

Whilst I don't mind the atheist misnomer being used to describe me, I'm most definitely not an unbeliever.

I have never seen anything sensible written or have heard anything sensible that would give me any reason to think that there's any such thing as a god, whatever it or that might be, so how do I become an unbeliever in something that's for me not there in the first place, to be an unbeliever in; I'm not an aunicornist either.

Nick is quite capable of saying "I haven't got any verifiable evidence that the bible contains the actual words of god or Jesus", he must know this but refuses to admit it, all he does is convey more and more obtuse unintelligible sermon like gibberish.

I can admit that I can't prove that the god idea is completely without foundation, even though there is no verifiable evidence to support the idea, what's so difficult for Nick to admit his shortcomings none of you religionists have even a shred of verifiable evidence that would support your beliefs and most of you would admit this is so but without giving up your beliefs, what's so different about Nick.

ippy

[Brownie]

That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.

Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing;  some people just can't believe.  It never makes sense to them.

I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others.   Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened?   Would it be my fault?   I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that. 

It might not have happened though.  We'll never know.

[ippy]

That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.

Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing;  some people just can't believe.  It never makes sense to them.

I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others.   Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened?   Would it be my fault?   I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that. 

It might not have happened though.  We'll never know.

Sorry Brownie but: "the Lord caught me unawares one day",?

You nor anyone else has any good reason to say or write the above, no one could possibly know this kind of thing, 'I've had a series of things some would choose to say that kind of thing, that's life it happens, be content, there's no good reason to try to summon up mysterious forces, you might as well have buried a cat under the entry threshold to your home for protection from evil spirits, it would make just as much sense.

ippy

[Brownie]

I was relating a personal experience, ippy - just one sentence out of the entire post - not trying to persuade anyone to believe in its authenticity. 

(I do have cats buried in various places in the back garden, plus ashes scattered....)