A theological question for Unitarians

[NicholasMarks]

That is quite a reasonable post imo, ippy.

Nicholas, I don't agree that there is no excuse for not believing;  some people just can't believe.  It never makes sense to them.

I found it difficult for a very large part of my life but I must admit I was always open to believing, and wanted to, but not at the expense of being dishonest to myself or others.   Anyway let's just say the Lord caught me unawares one day but supposing that hadn't happened?   Would it be my fault?   I didn't put up barriers but I did need certainty; not tangible proof which is so often talked about because that isn't possible, but to know in myself, and I got that. 

It might not have happened though.  We'll never know.

I'ts really a question of how Almighty God and Jesus view things, Brownie.

Jesus died and was resurrected. and a wonderful book was put into existence explaining what righteousness is all about. That was the word made flesh and 2000 years have passed with that knowledge in our midst. Many dastardly deeds have resulted...and many have heard Jesus' teaching and responded to it. This was an essential part of the plan so that there was a body of righteous people to steward the new heavens and the New Earth.

God's Judgement appears to hinge upon the passing of a fiery lake of sulphur which appears to be a planetary body of some sort. Not one of us can dodge it because this rogue planet is on a crash or near crash course with us but those who are prepared to accommodate righteous teaching beforehand are promised salvation by the same mechanics which Jesus incorporated in his own salvation.

It seems we will be given notice of this forthcoming event and those who have not fallen beneath the level of sin acceptable by our God will also be saved because they will be easily converted to the science but those who don't respond, don't repent, don't show any interest in righteous comradeship, I'm afraid, will be on stony ground...just as Revelation 21:8 says. Now...many don't think there is anything after death but close examination of the Holy Bible says there is and those who aren't saved will have to take the consequences of not being saved.

[Anchorman]

The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.

[2Corrie]

The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.

That  is the most ACCURATE post on this thread Anchorman.

[Brownie]

That is also what I have always believed.  I do question whether I believe it because I was taught it and read it but I feel comfortable with the Word being Jesus.

[ippy]

I was relating a personal experience, ippy - just one sentence out of the entire post - not trying to persuade anyone to believe in its authenticity. 

(I do have cats buried in various places in the back garden, plus ashes scattered....)

To protect you and yours from evil spirits?

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

The Word made flesh was not a book - according to the ACCURATE reading of an ACCURATE translation of Scripture. "In the begining, the Word was there - the Word was with God, and the Word was God." God, NM, is not a book. He is a person - the Word - logos - incarnate, Christ Jesus.

Thank you for that Anchorman...That is precisely what I said. The Gospels are the account of that word made flesh and they cannot be divorced from each other. Not the accurate word anyway. There are various versions which contradict what Jesus taught...this is iniquity. Please read what is written and not what is suggested even insisted upon by those who want to stamp a different account of righteousness. It is the upbuilding of an everlasting spirit into a spiritual being that, like Jesus, can give us life after death.

It's almost as if Jesus, in death, sank to the electrical prison we all go to showing us that he had snatched the keys that holds us all in it and that we too can be resurrected to a new vessel...if we follow his way, his truth and his life...but we must get it right else the science will not work.

 

[Brownie]

To protect you and yours from evil spirits?

ippy

No, they only protect other cats and frighten away foxes.  Just think, when we move house, or peg, the new owners won't know they are buying a Pet Cemetary.

[ippy]

I'ts really a question of how Almighty God and Jesus view things, Brownie.

Jesus died and was resurrected. and a wonderful book was put into existence explaining what righteousness is all about. That was the word made flesh and 2000 years have passed with that knowledge in our midst. Many dastardly deeds have resulted...and many have heard Jesus' teaching and responded to it. This was an essential part of the plan so that there was a body of righteous people to steward the new heavens and the New Earth.

God's Judgement appears to hinge upon the passing of a fiery lake of sulphur which appears to be a planetary body of some sort. Not one of us can dodge it because this rogue planet is on a crash or near crash course with us but those who are prepared to accommodate righteous teaching beforehand are promised salvation by the same mechanics which Jesus incorporated in his own salvation.

It seems we will be given notice of this forthcoming event and those who have not fallen beneath the level of sin acceptable by our God will also be saved because they will be easily converted to the science but those who don't respond, don't repent, don't show any interest in righteous comradeship, I'm afraid, will be on stony ground...just as Revelation 21:8 says. Now...many don't think there is anything after death but close examination of the Holy Bible says there is and those who aren't saved will have to take the consequences of not being saved.

Nick, as allways strong on ascertion, with zero factual content, you're totally unable to seperate the two, nothing like a bit of fantasy and you refuse to give a straight answer to a straight question.

Nick, where's you verifiable evidence that would, if you had any, support your strange sermons?

ippy

[ippy]

No, they only protect other cats and frighten away foxes.  Just think, when we move house, or peg, the new owners won't know they are buying a Pet Cemetary.

Likewise only with dogs I don't mind cats but we're dog people, the burried dog spirits chase off the cats from leaving spiritual crapp in our garden.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

Nick, as allways strong on ascertion, with zero factual content, you're totally unable to seperate the two, nothing like a bit of fantasy and you refuse to give a straight answer to a straight question.

Nick, where's you verifiable evidence that would, if you had any, support your strange sermons?

ippy

On a roll now ippy but it wont alter the truth one iota. The truth is that all universal laws resolve themselves in the 'word'...the word of Almighty God...all because everything is energy (ref A Einstein and Almighty God) and as you might expect, everything unifies in that word...including every science.

We, here on planet Earth aren't yet that advanced so we can conclude that a much more advanced people delivered this knowledge along with a few blessings and a few warnings...one of which is the warning about God's Judgement...and...guess what...like you, no one seems to believe him...or his son, Jesus Christ.

The clues indicate it's not far off.

[Anchorman]

Thank you for that Anchorman...That is precisely what I said. The Gospels are the account of that word made flesh and they cannot be divorced from each other. Not the accurate word anyway. There are various versions which contradict what Jesus taught...this is iniquity. Please read what is written and not what is suggested even insisted upon by those who want to stamp a different account of righteousness. It is the upbuilding of an everlasting spirit into a spiritual being that, like Jesus, can give us life after death. It's almost as if Jesus, in death, sank to the electrical prison we all go to showing us that he had snatched the keys that holds us all in it and that we too can be resurrected to a new vessel...if we follow his way, his truth and his life...but we must get it right else the science will not work.

Nope. Sorry, NM, but an ACCURATE reading of the first twelve or so verses of John 1 - in an accurate translation - will show that John makes it clear that Christ - the 'logos' of God - is Himself God - not 'a god', 'a book' , a scientific dynamically energised accurate proposition, but God Himself Incarnate for us. There is no split in the Godhead, but one God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as per what most Christians accept - and, incidentally, most churches as well. https://www.oikoumene.org/en/about-us

[NicholasMarks]

Nope. Sorry, NM, but an ACCURATE reading of the first twelve or so verses of John 1 - in an accurate translation - will show that John makes it clear that Christ - the 'logos' of God - is Himself God - not 'a god', 'a book' , a scientific dynamically energised accurate proposition, but God Himself Incarnate for us. There is no split in the Godhead, but one God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - as per what most Christians accept - and, incidentally, most churches as well. https://www.oikoumene.org/en/about-us

I'm not going to argue this point with you Anchorman. If, as Paul told us, Jesus hadn't remained subservient to his father we would have two equal Gods so I'm not going to belittle either. But it is glaringly obvious...bearing in mind that the key to righteousness is taking things of God on face value that the written word accurately states, over and over again, that Jesus is the son of God...the image of his father.

Now...the 'word' is righteousness. God's Heavenly laws by which he controls many mansions/planets all controlled by righteousness...the 'word'...and Jesus was the word made flesh...and that word made flesh is contained in the Gospels.

I can't see the argument but I'm sure you'll find one.

   

[ippy]

On a roll now ippy but it wont alter the truth one iota. The truth is that all universal laws resolve themselves in the 'word'...the word of Almighty God...all because everything is energy (ref A Einstein and Almighty God) and as you might expect, everything unifies in that word...including every science.

We, here on planet Earth aren't yet that advanced so we can conclude that a much more advanced people delivered this knowledge along with a few blessings and a few warnings...one of which is the warning about God's Judgement...and...guess what...like you, no one seems to believe him...or his son, Jesus Christ.

The clues indicate it's not far off.

Nick, you can assert away to your hearts content but that doesn't make any of your multiple assertions to be factual, without verifiable evidence the nonsense you and your fellow travellers keep on pushing in the way you do, every one of these utterances will continue to remain as nothing more than a load of meaningless hot air.

Doesn't it ever occur to you that your posts very rarely relate to anything anyone asks you about, it's a bit like when someone asks you, 'what do you think of the weather today' and your answer would be something like, 'guess what? They've found life at the bottom of the Marinaia Trench', or absolutely anything else unrelated to the question you've been asked

It surprises me that you seem to be so utterly and completely unaware of this failing of yours Nick. 

I wonder, if you do decide to reply to this post, I wonder which part of your fluffing bible you'll pick as an answer, which of course, as usual, it wont be an answer. 

Where's the verifiable evidence that supports the veracity of your bible Nick? Straight answer please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.

ippy

 

[NicholasMarks]

Nick, you can assert away to your hearts content but that doesn't make any of your multiple assertions to be factual, without verifiable evidence the nonsense you and your fellow travellers keep on pushing in the way you do, every one of these utterances will continue to remain as nothing more than a load of meaningless hot air.

Doesn't it ever occur to you that your posts very rarely relate to anything anyone asks you about, it's a bit like when someone asks you, 'what do you think of the weather today' and your answer would be something like, 'guess what? They've found life at the bottom of the Marinaia Trench', or absolutely anything else unrelated to the question you've been asked

It surprises me that you seem to be so utterly and completely unaware of this failing of yours Nick. 

I wonder, if you do decide to reply to this post, I wonder which part of your fluffing bible you'll pick as an answer, which of course, as usual, it wont be an answer. 

Where's the verifiable evidence that supports the veracity of your bible Nick? Straight answer please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.

ippy

 

You refuse to  accept solid scientific principles ippy which leads us into Bible truth...that's ok. Your questions have been answered over and over but gou refuse to acknowledge anything at all. That isn't discussion...it just means stalemate with Almighty God, Jesus Christ, righteousness and righteous science on my side.

Now...for all the rest, you must read Jesus accurately. He, not me says upbuild a righteous spirit and harness resurrection for yourselves...and death always follows genetic decay so sin is progressively leading us to that decay. Now here is the important thing...God promises to lead us to his spiritual waters...it is a quencher of thirsts that no other quencher can reach and following Jesus accurately isn't too high a price to pay for it.

You will find that this living water is all around you all the time it quenches genetic thirsts which otherwise go wild with electric starvation...and anyone with serious health problems might do well to give Jesus a try.

[ippy]

You refuse to  accept solid scientific principles ippy which leads us into Bible truth...that's ok. Your questions have been answered over and over but gou refuse to acknowledge anything at all. That isn't discussion...it just means stalemate with Almighty God, Jesus Christ, righteousness and righteous science on my side.

Now...for all the rest, you must read Jesus accurately. He, not me says upbuild a righteous spirit and harness resurrection for yourselves...and death always follows genetic decay so sin is progressively leading us to that decay. Now here is the important thing...God promises to lead us to his spiritual waters...it is a quencher of thirsts that no other quencher can reach and following Jesus accurately isn't too high a price to pay for it.

You will find that this living water is all around you all the time it quenches genetic thirsts which otherwise go wild with electric starvation...and anyone with serious health problems might do well to give Jesus a try.

Nick I'm not refusing anything, as soon as you supply the verifiable evidence  that supports the veracity of your bible Nick, I'll convert immediately, straight answer only please Nick? No sermons needed thank you very much.

But Nick, if there's a problem because you can't find the verifiable evidence let me know and I promise I won't give you to hard a time just because you haven't got any supportive evidence , I realise once you admit it that you haven't got any verifiable evidence it means you'll be giving up on a very heavy investment that you've been making over the years, I promise you I wont take it lightly.

Now's your chance Nick, just the facts, no assertions, come on spill it all out. 

ippy

[Brownie]

Nicholas, many of us give serious consideration to things you say;  I have certainly thought about it all and found it very interesting.

You appear not to 'listen' to anything anyone says.

Please do.

No man is an island.

[NicholasMarks]

Nicholas, many of us give serious consideration to things you say;  I have certainly thought about it all and found it very interesting.

You appear not to 'listen' to anything anyone says.

Please do.

No man is an island.

I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.

Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.

Misleading people is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.

[Anchorman]

I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.

Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.

Misleading people is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.

Are you taking your definition of 'Living Waters' from John, NM?
If you are, then you acknowlege Christ is God....because He is the One who mentions 'living water'  - however your interpretation of the phrase is, er, unique.

[Anchorman]

Just a heads up, NM. Christ uses the phrase 'living water' to mean, not some 'dynamic energy' - as a corrupt mistranslation of the Bible has it, but the person of God we know as the Holy Spirit. Not 'Person', NM. Scripture always declares His personhood, not a force, pseudoscientific idea, energy, but a Person - the third person of the Godhead. Here's the CHRISTIAN view: https://gotquestions.org/living-water.html

[NicholasMarks]

Are you taking your definition of 'Living Waters' from John, NM?
If you are, then you acknowlege Christ is God....because He is the One who mentions 'living water'  - however your interpretation of the phrase is, er, unique.

God's Living Waters is the root cause of the entire work of the Holy Bible because it's the root cause of the universe and all the sciences in it...This means that when Almighty God says in the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth he is saying that the entire process that created the universe did so at his/God's  behest. We now have a material that can be atoms, stars, galaxies, the scientific principles contained within those structures and everything that their chemistry leads all this material/energy into becoming.

Almighty God then used this material in the construction of life and Jesus showed us how to harness this material for our own health and welfare which includes repair, resurrection and, ultimately everlasting life...all we have to do is follow Jesus Christ accurately and claim what is on offer...regardless of what life throws at us.



 

[NicholasMarks]

Just a heads up, NM. Christ uses the phrase 'living water' to mean, not some 'dynamic energy' - as a corrupt mistranslation of the Bible has it, but the person of God we know as the Holy Spirit. Not 'Person', NM. Scripture always declares His personhood, not a force, pseudoscientific idea, energy, but a Person - the third person of the Godhead. Here's the CHRISTIAN view: https://gotquestions.org/living-water.html

I get all my support from the Holy Bible, and from righteous exploration, according to Jesus' accurate teaching, Anchorman.

[Anchorman]

      Oh, and you'd better not read this link, NM - because it is a very scholarly, accurate reading of Jesus' scandalous shout in John 7 - and the commentator makes it clear that the 'scandal' was Jesus doing something only God would do, and taking the place of God Himself whilst doing it. Were He anyone other than God, this would be blasphemy by any category you choose. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Source-Living-Water-All

[ippy]

I have tried to give you absolute truth according to the Holy Bible and according to science Brownie. I see a unification between the two and it all hinges upon a material that God calls his living waters. If everything unifies with that material including Jesus Christ's resurrection then I'm entitled to bring that knowledge into the arena and make it known how that knowledge can help us all. If no one wants to listen that is ok with me...but it is also linked to the last days of this evil system of things, and that we are living in that time should be obvious to us all.

Now if you are telling me I'm not responding to questions on the strength of another who has been answered more than adequately many times...you are mistaken.

Misleading peoeple is the art of those who don't like God and I'm afraid I'm not one of those.

If you are trying to apply the absolute truth, then obviously you're not trying hard enough, like this post of yours, I'd like to understand it but like your fellow believers none of us are able to get our heads around what looks like and amounts to words that could be taken as little more than demented ramblings.

You seem to think you're writing answers to other posters, you are not answering anyone, none of your words are making any sense and you are getting worse, most people you refer to as atheists do not dislike your god, we just don't think there is a god yours or anyone elses anywhere to dislike, there's nothing there, we think it's so unlikely that there is any such  thing as a god the whole idea of gods isn't worth the bother.

Take a deep breath before you write anything else and then when you write your next post see if you can make it understandable, best without references to electricity or rightiousness, these two referrences are inclined to turn you into a figure of derission.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

      Oh, and you'd better not read this link, NM - because it is a very scholarly, accurate reading of Jesus' scandalous shout in John 7 - and the commentator makes it clear that the 'scandal' was Jesus doing something only God would do, and taking the place of God Himself whilst doing it. Were He anyone other than God, this would be blasphemy by any category you choose. https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Source-Living-Water-All

It is more righteously acceptable to read here that Almighty God's direct agent...his son, Jesus Christ, no less, told those who would listen that God's Living Waters is something quite special, beneficial to those seeking righteousness, and is spiritual in nature. It is all around us all the time and whilst many live their lives in ignorance of it, cutting themselves off from its refreshing fruits, and from quenching of our deepest genetic thirsts, those who follow the 'word made flesh' can become reattached...but only by following Jesus accurately...You see how science keeps creeping in to that righteous 'word.' We must get it right...and I can tell you that much of what is written in the Holy Bible and which is repeated over and over is somewhat different to what is encouraged...as if it has no real value...iniquity...and we can't follow iniquity and think somehow we are following Jesus no matter how many times we speak his name.

[NicholasMarks]

If you are trying to apply the absolute truth, then obviously you're not trying hard enough, like this post of yours, I'd like to understand it but like your fellow believers none of us are able to get our heads around what looks like and amounts to words that could be taken as little more than demented ramblings.

You seem to think you're writing answers to other posters, you are not answering anyone, none of your words are making any sense and you are getting worse, most people you refer to as atheists do not dislike your god, we just don't think there is a god yours or anyone elses anywhere to dislike, there's nothing there, we think it's so unlikely that there is any such  thing as a god the whole idea of gods isn't worth the bother.

Take a deep breath before you write anything else and then when you write your next post see if you can make it understandable, best without references to electricity or rightiousness, these two referrences are inclined to turn you into a figure of derission.

iipy

ippy...when you can prove to me that there isn't a superabundant, invisible material contained within this universe which science claims exists and God claims exists and which, by my calculations, must be the raw material from which everything else is made from then I'll still believe in Almighty God and Jesus Christ because it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me...and I have the science to prove it. Now atheism is well known to keep condemning God and Jesus Christ and anyone and everyone who aligns with them...so I don't think your remarks have any serious consideration attached to them.