A theological question for Unitarians

[ippy]

ippy...when you can prove to me that there isn't a superabundant, invisible material contained within this universe which science claims exists and God claims exists and which, by my calculations, must be the raw material from which everything else is made from then I'll still believe in Almighty God and Jesus Christ because it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to me...and I have the science to prove it. Now atheism is well known to keep condemning God and Jesus Christ and anyone and everyone who aligns with them...so I don't think your remarks have any serious consideration attached to them.

This is another potty load of drivel Nick, I'll explain where you've gone wrong, yet again, later I'm going out now.

ippy

[Brownie]

Nicholas, why don't you join in with posters on threads in non-religious sections?
Jesus socialised and I doubt if he talked about his heavenly father all the time, he was an all round person.
It would be nice for us to see other sides of you.

[floo]

Nicholas, why don't you join in with posters on threads in non-religious sections?
Jesus socialised and I doubt if he talked about his heavenly father all the time, he was an all round person.
It would be nice for us to see other sides of you.

I have asked him to do that too.

[Anchorman]

 NM: I've had dealings with Christian denominations from Orthodox to Pentecostals. I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers. Your take on the Scripture is unique. Throwing stuff like 'electric', 'dynamic', 'scientific' etc, into every sentence - when they are not in any recognised Scripture or translation, makes your argument mot only incomprehensible, but useless as a tool of evangelism. I honestly do not know where your ideas come from - but they do not accord in any way with Scripture or Christian apologetics as we know them. You seem incapable of examining the possibility of the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Christ, etc - mainstream Christian doctrines for millennia, every one of them.

[Brownie]

I have asked him to do that too.

Yes I remember you saying that.  I wish he would but we can't force him and have given up on all this now, it has ceased to be of interest.  Plenty of other threads, as we have said  .

However, I have to say, again, imo too much is being made of belief or non-belief in the Trinity.  It seems to be a sticking point for many.

[NicholasMarks]

NM: I've had dealings with Christian denominations from Orthodox to Pentecostals. I've dialogued with groups such as the JWs, Mormons and Unitarians, who claim to be Christian, but are not, by any definition I recognise, believers. Your take on the Scripture is unique. Throwing stuff like 'electric', 'dynamic', 'scientific' etc, into every sentence - when they are not in any recognised Scripture or translation, makes your argument mot only incomprehensible, but useless as a tool of evangelism. I honestly do not know where your ideas come from - but they do not accord in any way with Scripture or Christian apologetics as we know them. You seem incapable of examining the possibility of the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the divinity of Christ, etc - mainstream Christian doctrines for millennia, every one of them.

There is a lot of knowledge, all gleaned from the Holy Bible in everything I say, Anchorman. It's sad that you are unable to understand it but I'm afraid that understanding what Jesus lived for, died for, and was resurrected for, is of paramount importance because it leads to a profound understanding which, like Jesus and Almighty God say, will lead to everlasting life.

You see...the state of the world today, with all its wars, ill health, confusion and distress is the net result of evil with its co-conspirator...iniquity...but studying, as an individual, Jesus' exact teaching is the only way to God's Living Waters and that is a path that takes us in the opposite direction to the consequences evil. 

You may not think God's spiritual energy as gleaned by following righteousness is of any use to you but it is the product of an indestructible energy which we can harness and train into an indestructible spirit...and this will prove on Judgement day how obedient to righteousness we've been.

Following Jesus accurately isn't a chore...it is a way of eliminating falsehoods out of indoctrination and iniquity is the worlds worst at indoctrination.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jim,

Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".

To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.

Gonnagle.

[Anchorman]

Dear Jim,

Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".

To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.

Gonnagle.

If you're looking for strict doctrine - don't go to Kirk!
We accept 'liberality of conscience, Gonners - but there are limits.
Like all Christian denominations I know, we accept the Apostles Creed - grounded - accurately - in Scripture.
That's what unites us; all the bells, smells, robes, candles, hymns etc are just icing on the cake.
The fact is that NM's 'scientific electric righteousness' does not appear in any Scripture or translion or even paraphrase with which I'm familiar.
It might be on the Klingon one (yes, there IS a version in Klingon. Why? Don't ask me!)

[NicholasMarks]

If you're looking for strict doctrine - don't go to Kirk!
We accept 'liberality of conscience, Gonners - but there are limits.
Like all Christian denominations I know, we accept the Apostles Creed - grounded - accurately - in Scripture.
That's what unites us; all the bells, smells, robes, candles, hymns etc are just icing on the cake.
The fact is that NM's 'scientific electric righteousness' does not appear in any Scripture or translion or even paraphrase with which I'm familiar.
It might be on the Klingon one (yes, there IS a version in Klingon. Why? Don't ask me!)

Thanks for that Gonnagle...at the moment I feel a little like Jesus must have when he said of the Jews, I wanted to pull you all to me but you wouldn't listen.

If you read your Holy Bible a little more accurately Anchorman you will find that Jesus fed you on baby food because you wouldn't understand him...I'm feeding you solids and don't expect me to get too concerned for anyone who is watching all this distress on the tele, unfolding, and is arguing the toss about how we might prepare for salvation and bringing God's righteous teaching into this modern era...especially when I stick exclusively to Jesus' righteous teaching.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Jim,

Mainstream Christian Doctrine!! To be perfectly honest I get more out of a NicholasMarks post than all the other Christians on this forum, sorry to be blunt Jim but your post reads like a "my way or the highway" which is one of the main reasons I don't attend Church regularly, to many so called Christians pointing the finger and saying "oh your not one of us".

To end my little rantette I will leave you with a fact, a fact you can't get over, under, around, the Holy Bible is not some old dusty tome that you should read and then forget, it is there to make you think, to awaken the old grey cells, to take you down paths of new enlightenment, so if for one poster it shouts electric, scientific, dynamic, then more power to that posters elbow.

Gonnagle.

How about people with cancer because they have sinned, Gonzo? You think that stating that needs more power to someone's elbow?

[ippy]

Thanks for that Gonnagle...at the moment I feel a little like Jesus must have when he said of the Jews, I wanted to pull you all to me but you wouldn't listen.

If you read your Holy Bible a little more accurately Anchorman you will find that Jesus fed you on baby food because you wouldn't understand him...I'm feeding you solids and don't expect me to get too concerned for anyone who is watching all this distress on the tele, unfolding, and is arguing the toss about how we might prepare for salvation and bringing God's righteous teaching into this modern era...especially when I stick exclusively to Jesus' righteous teaching.

More utter tripe and it looks to me you're continuing to think of yourself as some sort of martyr enduring some kind of trial that only exsists inside your totally indoctrinated mind.

ippy

[NicholasMarks]

How about people with cancer because they have sinned, Gonzo? You think that stating that needs more power to someone's elbow?

Jesus, himself without sin showed us how to live without sin...and also how to repair from sin. Sin isn't just doing bad acts...it is wasting our righteous strength...and there aren't many alive today who don't. Our righteous strength is the powerhouse of our body and wasting it not only damages our own genetics we pass that damage to subsequent generations. One of our biggest problems is mind over matter. We strive to achieve results by mental effort instead of muscular effort and this leaves us emotionally fatigued.

It's a very big science which shows that exhausted body-cells not in receipt of its fair share of nervous stimulation will go wild, cancerous, so it is wise to take Jesus Christ very seriously indeed.

 

[Anchorman]

So what about the multitude of disabled Christians, then? Where did they - we - go wrong? Can I cite paraplegic Joni Earickson Tada - a fantastic evangelist and example of Christian living whom I;m proud to call a friend? Or my friend singer/songwriter and Christian writer Marilyn Baker, who has used her disability for the Kingdom? Or myself, a believer in the Triune God, and used by Him despite a few disabling ailments, one of which will worsen with the years? Where does your nonsense - and, NM, that is what iyt is - fit in?

[ippy]

Jesus, himself without sin showed us how to live without sin...and also how to repair from sin. Sin isn't just doing bad acts...it is wasting our righteous strength...and there aren't many alive today who don't. Our righteous strength is the powerhouse of our body and wasting it not only damages our own genetics we pass that damage to subsequent generations. One of our biggest problems is mind over matter. We strive to achieve results by mental effort instead of muscular effort and this leaves us emotionally fatigued.

It's a very big science which shows that exhausted body-cells not in receipt of its fair share of nervous stimulation will go wild, cancerous, so it is wise to take Jesus Christ very seriously indeed.

 

You waste your strength by continually writing  your senseless utterences here on th forum.

Ippy

[NicholasMarks]

You waste your strength by continually writing  your senseless utterences here on th forum.

Ippy

God's energy is free to all who approach it righteously. Its power repairs our genetics...or, put another way...quenches thirsts that otherwise cannot be reached...so I reckon I'm getting along fine. Don't concern yourself with me even though I might concern myself for you...it's all in a days work.



 

[NicholasMarks]

So what about the multitude of disabled Christians, then? Where did they - we - go wrong? Can I cite paraplegic Joni Earickson Tada - a fantastic evangelist and example of Christian living whom I;m proud to call a friend? Or my friend singer/songwriter and Christian writer Marilyn Baker, who has used her disability for the Kingdom? Or myself, a believer in the Triune God, and used by Him despite a few disabling ailments, one of which will worsen with the years? Where does your nonsense - and, NM, that is what iyt is - fit in?

Many people feel lifted when they are in a group and feel that something wonderful has happened...notably at a football match when your team wins. Righteousness is conserving that energy and not wasting it. Upbuilding a righteous spirit from it because an unrighteous spirit gets trapped in the ether. Jesus Christ is the one to follow. Even if others want to follow him as well it's not wise to break away from his teaching by common consent because few understand righteousness as he does.

[Anchorman]

That, NM, is not an answer. It isn't even an attempt at an answer. To help you revise your witterings, here's an article on Christians and disability. Clue: It comes from an 'accurate'. 'righteous'. look at Scripture. It should be right up your street, then. http://www.bethinking.org/human-life/a-biblical-view-of-disability Please read and respond.

[ippy]

God's energy is free to all who approach it righteously. Its power repairs our genetics...or, put another way...quenches thirsts that otherwise cannot be reached...so I reckon I'm getting along fine. Don't concern yourself with me even though I might concern myself for you...it's all in a days work.

Even your fellow religious believers see you as cracked Nick, not just me.

It would be good to see you writing something with a bit of sense attached to it, insted of all of your, not much more than schoolboy nonsense.

ippy

[Brownie]

It would be good to see Nicholas talking about something non-religious, like music, TV, sport, or books.  Even the weather or what he's doing for Christmas.

No doubt Nicholas will have a big star on top of the Christmas tree and maybe a few smaller ones dotted about.
An angel perhaps but no fairies.

[Anchorman]

While I wait (patiently) for his response, I'd be interested in NM's take on Christmas - given that the JWs, whom he admires, but is not a part of, reject it (though they used to embrace it)

[NicholasMarks]

That, NM, is not an answer. It isn't even an attempt at an answer. To help you revise your witterings, here's an article on Christians and disability. Clue: It comes from an 'accurate'. 'righteous'. look at Scripture. It should be right up your street, then. http://www.bethinking.org/human-life/a-biblical-view-of-disability Please read and respond.

What we have to realise Anchorman is that Jesus delivered everything we need to know about disability. I’m not free from light disabilities and don’t wish to be dismissive of them. If we say that Adam and Eve were born perfect and death came into the world because of sin…we know straightaway that the passage to death is littered with sin…and as we know that everyone who dies  from sin aren’t always themselves nasty sinners, then we know we haven’t really grasped what sin is.

Almighty God knows that we lose track of our sins so that whilst our health fails because of them we have lost track of the path of its destruction…hence, Jesus Christ, the perfect example for following and thereby achieving the best results from paying back for our sins, bearing in mind that the disabilities build up slowly, cross generations and can be soul destroying…so, it’s wise to follow the pattern that Jesus taught us and this can be identified as not wasting our inner nervous strength and turning it into righteous strength with our own profile firmly stamped upon it.

If we knew how the living cell replicates we would know what goes wrong. We know it’s often our influence because perfectly healthy cells can suddenly become rogue cells and become cancerous…Well, if we pool together all the knowledge gleaned from the Holy Bible we find that sin is wasting our inner, righteous strength. We get worked up, do things that are wasteful of it, we waste it chasing rainbows, we waste it seeking false idols, going down false paths and feeding false relationships. Evil has a knack of driving us by fear and deceit and these are wasteful losses of our spiritual strength which is delivered via the same root as our nervous strength. As we waste it our glands and organs get more and more tired and our morale slumps drastically…so…following Jesus is a way round all this and gain resurrection to a new vessel into the bargain…that’s how it is revealed to me and I learn more and more about it every day.

[Anchorman]

Your lack of understanding of the scope of disability is matched only by your complete inability to read and interpret Scripture 'accurately', I'm afraid. Many, many disabled Christians - myself included, do not recognise one iota of the Chriastian faith in your post.

[NicholasMarks]

Your lack of understanding of the scope of disability is matched only by your complete inability to read and interpret Scripture 'accurately', I'm afraid. Many, many disabled Christians - myself included, do not recognise one iota of the Chriastian faith in your post.

That's sad Anchorman, not unexpected, but sad.

You see, when your scientists issue a new drug...which often, the evidence suggests, may or may not work...it will have a huge fan-fare and everyone will want some. Well I too have a new medicine to offer. Not because I'm clever but because Almighty God and his much loved son are clever...they have realised and delivered this knowledge to us but because its free it seems we don't want it. It is God's living Waters. Only available through righteousness because, like the lilies in the valley, we have to achieve that same radio frequency which unthinking life hits automatically and by meekness, humility, righteous respect for our deity and wholesome prayer we can achieve that right harmonious note.

We are told it quenches thirsts that no other quencher can reach...but you will never know unless you give it a try.

[Anchorman]

Nick: You bang on about cancer, illness, disability, etc. Do you have any scientific knowledge of these issues? Any experience of Christians with disabilities, life limiting or terminal illness? Because your posts make no sense, and are in no way shape or form Christian thinking. Can I respectfully suggest you google Joni Earickson-Tada? She's paraplegic, and has battled cancer - a double whammy. I first met her in 1980, and have met her a few times since - and I'm in touch with her. Her books, talks, paintings, songs; her ministry amongst Christians of all abilities gives her a far better witness to faith and disability than mine can ever be. There are umpteen sites - and her books are on Amazon and a must for anyone interested in the subject. Try googling 'Joni and friends' - that should open your eyes - if it doesn't, nothing will. Meanwhile, here's an article from the secular Time magazine which should give you pause for thought. http://content.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2016484,00.html

[Anchorman]

That's sad Anchorman, not unexpected, but sad.

You see, when your scientists issue a new drug...which often, the evidence suggests, may or may not work...it will have a huge fan-fare and everyone will want some. Well I too have a new medicine to offer. Not because I'm clever but because Almighty God and his much loved son are clever...they have realised and delivered this knowledge to us but because its free it seems we don't want it. It is God's living Waters. Only available through righteousness because, like the lilies in the valley, we have to achieve that same radio frequency which unthinking life hits automatically and by meekness, humility, righteous respect for our deity and wholesome prayer we can achieve that right harmonious note.

We are told it quenches thirsts that no other quencher can reach...but you will never know unless you give it a try.

Do you really believe the guff you just posted, NM?
As someone with a few disabilities, I can tell you that 'balderdash' doesn't even come close.