The fiver and the fat

[Rhiannon]

I couldn't manage a vegan lifestyle, in spite of being veggie. Hats off to those who do.

[Nearly Sane]

In my personal experience - yes, most definitely!

My last boss would get into work early in order to leave pro-vegan, anti-vegetarian, anti-meat pamphlest and screeds on every desk in the office and God help you if she saw you throw tthe away with out reading them! Hell hath no fury within a hundred miles!

I will give up meat when man/woman evolves so that he/she has no canine teeth whose only purpose is tearing meat! 

Until then bring on the steaks, sausages and bacon/ham!

This is a self fulfilling observation though since if you meet a vegan who doesn't do this, then you won't know. You've set up a conclusion from a position of unfalsifiability.

[Owlswing]

This is a self fulfilling observation though since if you meet a vegan who doesn't do this, then you won't know. You've set up a conclusion from a position of unfalsifiability.

My conclusion was, and is, that "from my personal experience" of vegans they are a pain in the arse and, until such time as "my personal experience" tells me different that will remain my conclusion.

They are, to me, another group of those, like some Christians, who consider that their way is the only way and it must be everybody's way! 

[Maeght]

My conclusion was, and is, that "from my personal experience" of vegans they are a pain in the arse and, until such time as "my personal experience" tells me different that will remain my conclusion.

They are, to me, another group of those, like some Christians, who consider that their way is the only way and it must be everybody's way!

How do you know if you have met other Vegans who haven't acted like this though?

[Nearly Sane]

My conclusion was, and is, that "from my personal experience" of vegans they are a pain in the arse and, until such time as "my personal experience" tells me different that will remain my conclusion.

They are, to me, another group of those, like some Christians, who consider that their way is the only way and it must be everybody's way!

Yes, but by definition you may have met many vegans who do not behave like this but you woukd not know thus. So your conclusion is invalid.

[Owlswing]

Yes, but by definition you may have met many vegans who do not behave like this but you would not know thus. So your conclusion is invalid.

Not "from my experience" of those who have openly espoused veganism. If I have met vegans who have not ope4nly espoused the position I am not able to include them in "my experience" am I?

Your pedantry addiction does not make my experience invalid!

[Nearly Sane]

Not "from my experience" of those who have openly espoused veganism. If I have met vegans who have not ope4nly espoused the position I am not able to include them in "my experience" am I?

Your pedantry addiction does not make my experience invalid!

Which means making a conclusion about all vegans is invalid because as you yourself note here, you wouldn't have the information to to so..

[ProfessorDavey]

It's a bit like the forcing of shops to trade a limited number of hours on Sundays by people with irrational belief systems. 

I don't really see it as equivalent.

The Christian anti-Sunday shopping lot want to stop us from doing something we might otherwise wish to do, in other words shop on a Sunday outside of a small number of hours, which may not be convenient.

The vegan campaigners are trying to stop us spending cash, or even £5 notes - they just want the manufacturing process changed so they don't contain animal fat. Were they to get their way my life wouldn't be changed one iota - I could still pay for things with £5 notes - they'd just be different in a manner which wouldn't make any difference to me, but would to them.

So there isn't an equivalence at all in my view.

[ProfessorDavey]

First time I've heard Trades Unionists being described as having 'irrationalbelief systems'.  I don't always agree with them, but I wouldn't call them irrational.

When opposing longer opening hours Trade unionists are looking to protect their members rights - there is nothing irrational about that. And they have been consistent, for example their concerns about all night running of the tube system in London. It isn't just Sunday they are concerned about. Not saying I agree with them, but their arguments are consistent and rational.

Christians, in contrast, aren't arguing from a rational perspective when trying to prevent longer opening hours on Sundays - firstly because there is no rational reason why only Sunday is important in this context. Secondly there is gross inconsistency (linked to the lack of rational view) - I haven't seen Christian groups similarly campaigning against extended opening of shops/museums/tubes etc on other days of the week, which affect workers lives in a similar manner to extended opening on Sundays.

[Sebastian Toe]

When opposing longer opening hours Trade unionists are looking to protect their members rights - there is nothing irrational about that. And they have been consistent, for example their concerns about all night running of the tube system in London. It isn't just Sunday they are concerned about. Not saying I agree with them, but their arguments are consistent and rational.

Christians, in contrast, aren't arguing from a rational perspective when trying to prevent longer opening hours on Sundays - firstly because there is no rational reason why only Sunday is important in this context. Secondly there is gross inconsistency (linked to the lack of rational view) - I haven't seen Christian groups similarly campaigning against extended opening of shops/museums/tubes etc on other days of the week, which affect workers lives in a similar manner to extended opening on Sundays.

I 'hope' that you re not expecting a reply from the original poster?! 

[Maeght]

Not "from my experience" of those who have openly espoused veganism. If I have met vegans who have not ope4nly espoused the position I am not able to include them in "my experience" am I?

Yes, part of your experience would be meeting vegans who don't openly espose veganism.

[Owlswing]

Yes, part of your experience would be meeting vegans who don't openly espose veganism.

Don't be daft! If I don't know they are vegan, their vegan stance cannot be part of my experience! I can only judge by those who did make their veganism known!

[Harrowby Hall]

Harrowby Hall on December 01, 2016, 06:13:17 AM
It's a bit like the forcing of shops to trade a limited number of hours on Sundays by people with irrational belief systems. 

I don't really see it as equivalent.

I never said it was. What I was saying was simply that it is a case of a minority trying to force a majority into complying with its idiosyncratic views. Nothing more.

It's taken you a long time to comment on this.

[Owlswing]

What I was saying was simply that it is a case of a minority trying to force a majority into complying with its idiosyncratic views.

Precisely my point in #43!

[Maeght]

Don't be daft! If I don't know they are vegan, their vegan stance cannot be part of my experience! I can only judge by those who did make their veganism known!

Part of your experience is meeting vegans who you don't know are vegans.

[Owlswing]

Part of your experience is meeting vegans who you don't know are vegans.

Yes! Because they keep their traps shut and don't try to convert me to veganism, an experience I am happy to forgo!

[Rhiannon]

Your beef (sorry) is with militant vegans, Sir Owl, and they aren't the majority any more than that PITA pagans are the majority or the in-you-face Christians are.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes! Because they keep their traps shut and don't try to convert me to veganism, an experience I am happy to forgo!

to change this slightly, were you aware until this thread that Maeght was vegan? If not, then your experience is now expanded so that your initial statement, logically flawed as it was, is shown to be wrong in its premises

[Owlswing]

to change this slightly, were you aware until this thread that Maeght was vegan? If not, then your experience is now expanded so that your initial statement, logically flawed as it was, is shown to be wrong in its premises

Oh give it a bloody rest for f**ks sake!

Maeght has alreaddy said tbhet she does not proselytise for veganism - good on her!
I have said before and I say again for the last time MY BEEF IS WITH THOSE WHO DO! Vegans, PETAs, Christians, muslims, tories, labourites, trade unionists - they can all think and say what they like as long as they don't try to get me to think like them!

Have you and Maeght got that through your thick skulls yet? If not, tough, 'cos I'm not saying it aagin!

[Nearly Sane]

Oh give it a bloody rest for f**ks sake!

Maeght has alreaddy said tbhet she does not proselytise for veganism - good on her!
I have said before and I say again for the last time MY BEEF IS WITH THOSE WHO DO! Vegans, PETAs, Christians, muslims, tories, labourites, trade unionists - they can all think and say what they like as long as they don't try to get me to think like them!

Have you and Maeght got that through your thick skulls yet? If not, tough, 'cos I'm not saying it aagin!

The problem is that you initially stated the comment applied to all vegans, then qualified it to in your experience, and have since had that shown not to be true. Lazy generalizations such as you initially started with are simple prejudices.

[Maeght]

Oh give it a bloody rest for f**ks sake!

Maeght has alreaddy said tbhet she does not proselytise for veganism - good on her!
I have said before and I say again for the last time MY BEEF IS WITH THOSE WHO DO! Vegans, PETAs, Christians, muslims, tories, labourites, trade unionists - they can all think and say what they like as long as they don't try to get me to think like them!

Have you and Maeght got that through your thick skulls yet? If not, tough, 'cos I'm not saying it aagin!

Your original post said 'Vegans are becoming, if they are not already, as big a pain in the butt as PETA, militant Christians and militant muslims!' As has been said you tried to back track after making such a lazy generalisation by saying 'in your experience'. Perhaps it is you who has the thick skull not to recognise this and perhaps you should give it a rest and just accept you made a lazy generalisation. Getting offensive and swearing suggests - as ever -that you are rattled but unable to take back anything you have said or able to admit you made a mistake.

And by the way I am a he not a she.

[Owlswing]

The problem is that you initially stated the comment applied to all vegans, then qualified it to in your experience, and have since had that shown not to be true. Lazy generalizations such as you initially started with are simple prejudices.

Pedantry stikes again - you are one of those who will not, under any circumstances, be wrong in any way!

[Owlswing]

Your original post said 'Vegans are becoming, if they are not already, as big a pain in the butt as PETA, militant Christians and militant muslims!' As has been said you tried to back track after making such a lazy generalisation by saying 'in your experience'. Perhaps it is you who has the thick skull not to recognise this and perhaps you should give it a rest and just accept you made a lazy generalisation. Getting offensive and swearing suggests - as ever -that you are rattled but unable to take back anything you have said or able to admit you made a mistake.

And by the way I am a he not a she.

Bully for you!


An you cannot or will not admit that your fellow vegans are becoming more and more vociferouis in their pursuit of an all vegan society!

[Nearly Sane]

Bully for you!


An you cannot or will not admit that your fellow vegans are becoming more and more vociferouis in their pursuit of an all vegan society!

That's a strawman

[Nearly Sane]

Pedantry stikes again - you are one of those who will not, under any circumstances, be wrong in any way!

Well pedantry only works when you are right.