666

[Dicky Underpants]

Ah!
You must mean that bit in the NWT where the Watchrtower deliberately skews Scrioture to suit their theology, NM?
Here's a simplistic version of why they deliberately lied about it.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-hebrew/2001-June/010945.html



Nowhere in Isaiah does 'dynamic energy' occur.

Just flicked through about forty translations on Bible Gateway: they all seem to say much the same as the RSV, speaking on greatness of power, might etc:

"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth."

Odd that he should latch on to one or two JW phrases and depart on his own sweet way for the rest, following free association or some looney ideas he's seen on the internet or elsewhere. The ideas of Erich von Daniken seem to be not too far away, nor indeed Mormon ideas of God.

[NicholasMarks]

Nick
I'm going to take a chance and ignore what your Jesus has to say. Would you have the courage to do that?
Try it,  you'll probably find it very liberating.

Unfortunately I'm not free to ignore truth Maeght/Walter...even if many can't see that truth. You have the Holy Bible warning you of impending danger...many observers saying there is a danger approaching of the sort described in the Holy Bible...the so called elite building massive escape hatches and little old me saying the best, in fact the only protection freely available to us is Jesus Christ's righteous teaching...just as he told us...I don't need to be too insistant because the unrighteous will just have to go with the flow.

[NicholasMarks]

Just flicked through about forty translations on Bible Gateway: they all seem to say much the same as the RSV, speaking on greatness of power, might etc:

"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth."

Odd that he should latch on to one or two JW phrases and depart on his own sweet way for the rest, following free association or some looney ideas he's seen on the internet or elsewhere. The ideas of Erich von Daniken seem to be not too far away, nor indeed Mormon ideas of God.

Again I don't have to get too excited Dicky...no one can say that the energy contained within the atom, within stars, within galaxies isn't best described as a dynamic energy. It manifests itself in many different and wonderful ways and certainly displays itself in life...best to go to the expert to learn about it though...Jesus Christ...who has promised to let you know its secrets at an appropriate time...I'm just suggesting that that appropriate time is now.

[Anchorman]

Just flicked through about forty translations on Bible Gateway: they all seem to say much the same as the RSV, speaking on greatness of power, might etc: "Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth." Odd that he should latch on to one or two JW phrases and depart on his own sweet way for the rest, following free association or some looney ideas he's seen on the internet or elsewhere. The ideas of Erich von Daniken seem to be not too far away, nor indeed Mormon ideas of God.

How to get a Bible translator emotionally disturbed? Tell 'em the NWT is the ultimate in 'accurate' 'dynamic' translations. Note: Wear a face mask....you need to avoid the resultant spit...... Here's a vasic link to the various 'deceptions' in the NWT. Whether one believes in Christianity or no, one cannot fail to be disturbed by the blatant mistranslation of what is supposed to be Christianity's founding document. http://www.ukapologetics.net/newworld.html

[Maeght]

I know it is vicious circle arguments Maeght and that I am falling headlong into them...but it is all part of the need to penetrate spiritual blindness. The Holy Bible exists...it is evidence...if it didn't exist you could say it isn't evidence...but it does.

It isn't valid evidence of anything other than people's beliefs as far as I can see.

No one can argue against that evidence unless they can disprove it as evidence and frankly you can't.

Of course you can argue against your or anyone elses interpretation of the Bible. I tend to try not to drift into theology though.

Not only that but millions of people have accepted that evidence as a true and accurate version of facts and have clung together to state and restate that evidence over and over again. That is a second point of evidence.

It's evidence of the strength of belief in something, yes. Not evidence that those beliefs are valid.

Many regimes have attached themselves to that evidence because, though they themselves aren't interested they know that it soothes the emotional wounds of the many and so they have reluctantly accepted it as an acceptable way to hold their peoples together, under their terms of iniquity imposed upon that teaching...this is further evidence...

Of what exectly, since you have said yourself that this would be about holding people together and nothing about the validity of a faith.

.. plus the modern insight which states that we, as a people, are only like a pimple on the universal knowledge of science, which has many more truths to throw at us...but, apparently, we must be receptive.

Yes we should be receptive to the ideas of science.

Not even solid, stout, outspoken disbelievers, can prevent the truth from coming out because science is indisputable and the Holy Bible is an overview of God's science...and righteousness isn't to high a price to pay for that universal knowledge.

Only in your unusual beliefs.

[Maeght]

Unfortunately I'm not free to ignore truth Maeght/Walter...even if many can't see that truth. You have the Holy Bible warning you of impending danger...many observers saying there is a danger approaching of the sort described in the Holy Bible...the so called elite building massive escape hatches and little old me saying the best, in fact the only protection freely available to us is Jesus Christ's righteous teaching...just as he told us...I don't need to be too insistant because the unrighteous will just have to go with the flow.

People have predicted dire times ahead for centuries.

[NicholasMarks]

People have predicted dire times ahead for centuries.

The way I'm reading things is that there are many reports of approaching rogue planetary bodies heading this way with properties able to inflict Biblically described clout...and the so-called elite are taking it seriously...whilst playing it all down to avoid panic and interference with their plans...Their plans wont include you or I.

Fortunately, we to have advanced warning...if we believe it. But there is a cost...we must align ourselves with the dictates of the authority which is offering that salvation. In fact, it is in following their second in charge, accurately, which will build the spiritual armour required...but this will all be double dutch to the uninitiated.

     

[NicholasMarks]

How to get a Bible translator emotionally disturbed? Tell 'em the NWT is the ultimate in 'accurate' 'dynamic' translations. Note: Wear a face mask....you need to avoid the resultant spit...... Here's a vasic link to the various 'deceptions' in the NWT. Whether one believes in Christianity or no, one cannot fail to be disturbed by the blatant mistranslation of what is supposed to be Christianity's founding document. http://www.ukapologetics.net/newworld.html

Though I find some errors in the Jehovah Witness teachings I find many more in the various other versions.

This is why I say, over and over again...follow the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...as he taught us, as he spoke it and as he lived it. I've tried and can say positively that it is the surface rendition of a deep and wonderful science. A science that says that all the dynamic energy that is compressed into atoms into stars and into galaxies is the same material which is also God's Living Waters...and as this is a quencher of thirsts that no other nourishment can reach, it might be wise to consider what Jesus says here rather than Anchorman.

   

[Sebastian Toe]

The way I'm reading things is that there are many reports of approaching rogue planetary bodies heading this way

     

Reports made by con men and you have been conned. Well and truly conned. Accurately conned.

[Maeght]

The way I'm reading things is that there are many reports of approaching rogue planetary bodies heading this way with properties able to inflict Biblically described clout...     

What unreliable websites have you been reading?

[NicholasMarks]

Reports made by con men and you have been conned. Well and truly conned. Accurately conned.

Perhaps I have another source of evidence Seb...like the planet shifting within its magnetic bonds...like climate change..like a surge in earthquakes and, dare I say it, food shortages in diverse places. These are all indicators of a powerful alteration in the good order of our, or, rather, God's planet...not to mention in the Holy Bible.

Pretty soon Seb. you yourself will probably be a source of that evidence because I reckon we will all be witnesses to it...but you might find then that it is too late.

Do you see how we keep going over old ground...circular argument. I will always answer according to my belief whilst you just keep saying you don't believe and I'm quite sure that there isn't any seriousness in your questioning...still, some silent viewers might see the reasoning that the Holy Bible supports even if iniquity doesn't.

 

[NicholasMarks]

What unreliable websites have you been reading?

I refer you to the message above in answer to Seb.

[Anchorman]

Though I find some errors in the Jehovah Witness teachings I find many more in the various other versions. This is why I say, over and over again...follow the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ...as he taught us, as he spoke it and as he lived it. I've tried and can say positively that it is the surface rendition of a deep and wonderful science. A science that says that all the dynamic energy that is compressed into atoms into stars and into galaxies is the same material which is also God's Living Waters...and as this is a quencher of thirsts that no other nourishment can reach, it might be wise to consider what Jesus says here rather than Anchorman. Er...... Sorry; NM. I was unaware that you were a linguistic expert, and that your knowledge of Hebrew, Koine Greek and Aramaic was better than those who have studied these languages at acedemic level, and found NWT to be deceitful - willfully mistranslated by an organisation which tries to pervert Scripture to suit their own theology.

[Anchorman]

What unreliable websites have you been reading?

The Nabiru post?

[Maeght]

I refer you to the message above in answer to Seb.

Which doesn't answer my question.

[ippy]

ippy/Maeght...

You have convinced yourselves that there is no God and refuse to entertain the idea that there is...The mistake you are all making...including Floo is in thinking that that God and Jesus are an age old myth not worth bothering about  and refusing to see a very advanced Deity that is playing out a plan from which they wont deviate.

This is proven by science especially as the Drake Equation positively states there is a strong possibility that other life forms are alive in this universe...many of them living on planets in the Milky Way...and according to other eye-witnesses they have this planet under surveillance.

This possibility automatically means that their level of intelligence is far greater than ours and could see things totally different to us.

The plan appears to be to warn the population on this planet of an impending danger and telling us that there is a way of protecting ourselves...the same way Jesus did from an event that carried the same dangers.

One thing we can be certain of if we accept the science and eye-witness accounts is that these visitors have a leader and Jesus was full of the authority of this leader calling him Almighty God.

If you want to know more about that leader from Heaven you must read the reports left behind by them after they actively interacted with people on this planet...it's all in the Holy Bible...but the choice is yours.

Nick, now read this very carefully, I haven't convinced myself that your god doesn't exist.

I haven't seen any verifiable evidence that would hold water and at the same time prove for once and all that your god does exist.

Due to the complete absence of verifiable evidence for any such thing as a god, I can't imagine why there would be any sensible reason to go looking for one.

This bible that you hold in great store, is as I understand a collection of stories including references to your Jesus, your god and various other supposedly supernatural beings, beings like this god of yours Jesus etc; bearing the former in mind, where is the verifiable evidence that proves these stories of supernatural happenings etc are actually based on actual events that did really happen?

I have to admit your Jesus bloke probably did exist but like the rest of your book, there is no verifiable proof that he did or said any of the things conveyed in this book, he may well have been a good man but no more a good man than say Nelson Mandela and no more a son of your god than Nelson is.

Nelson was a pain to those in charge and was seen by these authorities as a thorn in the side, Jesus was probably seen in a similar way to the Romans this time and found him to be a pain that was disturbing the smooth running of whatever it was they were trying to achieve; even so there is still no verifiable evidence that he was anything more than a pain in the arse that made the Romans feel that they had to do something with him. 

You still haven't come up with anything near to showing evidence that could be verified to be true about the magical, mystical and superstition based parts of your book.

And Nick you can't be so thick as to believe the bible proves the bible, if you do, really do, think this I feel so genuinely very very sorry for you Nick.

ippy

[Sebastian Toe]

Pretty soon Seb. you yourself will probably be a source of that evidence because I reckon we will all be witnesses to it...

Sorry Nick but you have lost me there.
What is it that I am going to be a witness to?

[Dicky Underpants]

Though I find some errors in the Jehovah Witness teachings I find many more in the various other versions.

I presume you're referring to the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, compared to other translations of the Bible. Since you claim to be a scholar who is capable of assessing the accuracy of various biblical translations, perhaps you could translate the following Hebrew texts for us (I have transliterated the Hebrew characters into English letters, since I can't reproduce the original Hebrew characters here: perhaps Anchorman can):

"drk auil ishr boiniu ushmo lotze chkm"

"lshun chkmin thitib doth uphi ksilim ibio aulth"

"la -ichphtz ksil bthbune ki am -bethgluth lbu"

[Anchorman]

I presume you're referring to the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, compared to other translations of the Bible. Since you claim to be a scholar who is capable of assessing the accuracy of various biblical translations, perhaps you could translate the following Hebrew texts for us (I have transliterated the Hebrew characters into English letters, since I can't reproduce the original Hebrew characters here: perhaps Anchorman can):

"drk auil ishr boiniu ushmo lotze chkm"

"lshun chkmin thitib doth uphi ksilim ibio aulth"

"la -ichphtz ksil bthbune ki am -bethgluth lbu"

I'm old enough (just) to have met the great Bible Scholar and teacher Rev William Barclay.
OK, he could be carnaptious, charming, grumpy and hilariously funny as the mood took him, but one thing guaranteed to REALLY anger him was mention of JWs - as an organisation.
They did a savage cut-and-paste of his review of the NWT, which ridiculed, trounced and rejected it in the kind of scholarly tones only Willie could use - and the article the JWs printed made it look as if he had cordially ENDORSED the thing.
If a group that called itself Christian could blatantly lie with abandon over something like that, no-one should take any doctrinal statement of theirs at face value.

[Dicky Underpants]

If a group that called itself Christian could blatantly lie with abandon over something like that, no-one should take any doctrinal statement of theirs at face value.

I wouldn't expect anything more from an organisation whose evangelising techniques seem to derive from American hard-sell business methods. But, as you can probably gather, 'accurate' doctrine doesn't bother me that much, since many clever minds throughout history (I don't mean JWs) have been able to derive such different and contradictory teachings from the Bible.
However, arsing about from door to door, and standing around on street corners doesn't strike me as the best way of "healing the sick, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison and feeding the hungry" (to paraphrase Matthew).

[NicholasMarks]

I wouldn't expect anything more from an organisation whose evangelising techniques seem to derive from American hard-sell business methods. But, as you can probably gather, 'accurate' doctrine doesn't bother me that much, since many clever minds throughout history (I don't mean JWs) have been able to derive such different and contradictory teachings from the Bible.
However, arsing about from door to door, and standing around on street corners doesn't strike me as the best way of "healing the sick, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison and feeding the hungry" (to paraphrase Matthew).

The Jehovah Witness faith doesn't need me to defend them. The Holy Bible will decide that issue because we must all try to read it accurately and many are being guided by others, other than Jesus...much of which is iniquity and if we remember what Jesus said about iniquity, it is important to ensure we get it right.

Science helps us because the science, built upon righteousness, guides us, and keeps us on track and righteous science is what Jesus taught us.

666 is a declaration which identifies those who will not be saved just as Revelation 21:8 does, but the difference is that some of these latter ones who repent can still be saved. It's all a question of quietly and carefully, honestly and responsibly, reattaching ourselves to God's Living Waters...through Jesus Christ's accurate teaching.

[Anchorman]

"Accurately". With respect, NM, you throw that word around like a blunderbus gun firing lead shot, in the hope that at least one pellet will hit home. The disgraceful wreck which is the New WEorld Translation translated with deliberate lies, falsehoods and misdirection by a committee, none of whose linguistic abilities is known, to suit a group's theology, is about as far from accuracy as you can get. Would you REALLY praise a group which willfully mistranslated Gods' word in an effort to make it suit their theology? Really? That's about as far from 'scientific' or 'accurate' as it's possible to go!

[NicholasMarks]

"Accurately". With respect, NM, you throw that word around like a blunderbus gun firing lead shot, in the hope that at least one pellet will hit home. The disgraceful wreck which is the New WEorld Translation translated with deliberate lies, falsehoods and misdirection by a committee, none of whose linguistic abilities is known, to suit a group's theology, is about as far from accuracy as you can get. Would you REALLY praise a group which willfully mistranslated Gods' word in an effort to make it suit their theology? Really? That's about as far from 'scientific' or 'accurate' as it's possible to go!

I don't see it the way you do Anchorman...but that isn't my point...use your own Bible...read exclusively what Jesus is saying, doing, and dying for...then allow what he says to permeate your own thinking and begin to feel the release from so much contrived alteration to keep iniquity in business. It isn't a game...it is attaching yourself to God's Living Waters for the purpose of salvation...only Jesus Christ offers that salvation and only on Almighty God's righteous terms. Don't worry about others, worry about you and yours first...then you might be able to help others.

Now you can't dis that and expect to be close to Jesus.

[Sebastian Toe]

666 is a declaration which identifies those who will not be saved

How exactly will someone know that 666 has identified them as not going to be saved.
Someone other than me Nick, how will they know, accurately.

[NicholasMarks]

How exactly will someone know that 666 has identified them as not going to be saved.
Someone other than me Nick, how will they know, accurately.

I don't put you in the 666 category yet Seb...These are those who unquestionably follow the philosophy of Satan...and believe me...they know who they are.  As yet, I suggest, that you can still repent, if you want to.