Time for Thornberry to go again.

[jakswan]

With regard to Aleppo suggests:-

The Govt should use drones to deliver aid
The Govt should should use GPS parachutes to deliver aid

We have neither, Andrew Neil, Daily Politics 'is it not incumbent on the Shadow Foreign Secretary to find out what she is talking about'.

[L.A.]

There were two sensible options that we might have taken at the start of this conflict:

A/ Move a large battle fleet off the coast of Syria and make it clear to Bashar al-Assad that we would bomb the shit out of him if he didn't do as he was told.

B/ Tell the rebels 'tough luck! you're on your own'

Unfortunately we did neither.

[ProfessorDavey]

There were two sensible options that we might have taken at the start of this conflict:

A/ Move a large battle fleet off the coast of Syria and make it clear to Bashar al-Assad that we would bomb the shit out of him if he didn't do as he was told.

B/ Tell the rebels 'tough luck! you're on your own'

Unfortunately we did neither.

We seems to end up in an endless see-saw between intervene and not intervene.

So the west (and the UK) was criticised for not intervening robustly enough in the former Yugoslavia and that didn't end well. So they felt they had to intervene in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that didn't go so well either. So they felt they should't intervene in Syria (and largely Libya) and neither of those ended well either.

[L.A.]

We seems to end up in an endless see-saw between intervene and not intervene.

So the west (and the UK) was criticised for not intervening robustly enough in the former Yugoslavia and that didn't end well. So they felt they had to intervene in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that didn't go so well either. So they felt they should't intervene in Syria (and largely Libya) and neither of those ended well either.

But what we did in the case the Syria was possibly the worst option. We encouraged and gave limited support to the pro democracy rebels while turning an blind eye to the Islamists, then stood back and allowed Russia to fill the power vacuum.

[ProfessorDavey]

But what we did in the case the Syria was possibly the worst option. We encouraged and gave limited support to the pro democracy rebels while turning an blind eye to the Islamists, then stood back and allowed Russia to fill the power vacuum.

Indeed, although hindsight is a fantastic thing. At the point when we were considering our response to Syria we had the experience of Iraq (and Afghanistan) in the forefront of our minds with a view that intervention merely created a civil war that involved British troops in the firing line.

A biggest problem is a failure to recognise that the enemy of our enemy isn't necessarily our friend.

[SqueakyVoice]

With regard to Aleppo suggests:-

The Govt should use drones to deliver aid
The Govt should should use GPS parachutes to deliver aid

Actually ET sad the government should consider using drones/ GPS parachutes. Which is rather different.
BJ (the "FFS") even admitted it was an option that was/ will be considered during his speech.

We have neither, Andrew Neil, Daily Politics 'is it not incumbent on the Shadow Foreign Secretary to find out what she is talking about'.

Andrew Neil? Know what he's talking about?! I believe the expression is "Journalist heal thyself."

[L.A.]

Indeed, although hindsight is a fantastic thing. At the point when we were considering our response to Syria we had the experience of Iraq (and Afghanistan) in the forefront of our minds with a view that intervention merely created a civil war that involved British troops in the firing line.

A biggest problem is a failure to recognise that the enemy of our enemy isn't necessarily our friend.

Even at the time, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a situation to be trifled with, it needed commitment one way or the other. The problem is that politicians of all shades feel that they need to 'do something' in answer to a crisis - even when doing nothing might be a better option.

[wigginhall]

I guess some MPs are having strong guilt feelings over rejecting the bombing of Assad.   Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Nearly Sane]

Even at the time, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't a situation to be trifled with, it needed commitment one way or the other. The problem is that politicians of all shades feel that they need to 'do something' in answer to a crisis - even when doing nothing might be a better option.

Doing nothing is a position, and it's one that has been espoused at various times by various politicians.

[jakswan]

We seems to end up in an endless see-saw between intervene and not intervene.

So the west (and the UK) was criticised for not intervening robustly enough in the former Yugoslavia and that didn't end well. So they felt they had to intervene in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that didn't go so well either. So they felt they should't intervene in Syria (and largely Libya) and neither of those ended well either.

Not attempting to argue here and admittedly might need some enlightenment however wasn't the intervention in Yugoslavia humanitarian, Afghanistan\Iraq to address a threat.

Also, we didn't intervene in Rwanda.

[jakswan]

Actually ET sad the government should consider using drones/ GPS parachutes. Which is rather different.

So I said ET suggested using drones, you say she said Govt should consider using drones. How is that "rather different"?

BJ (the "FFS") even admitted it was an option that was/ will be considered during his speech.Andrew Neil? Know what he's talking about?! I believe the expression is "Journalist heal thyself."

You mean we have got drones and GPS parachutes capable of delivering aid?

[Nearly Sane]

We seems to end up in an endless see-saw between intervene and not intervene.

So the west (and the UK) was criticised for not intervening robustly enough in the former Yugoslavia and that didn't end well. So they felt they had to intervene in Afghanistan and Iraq, and that didn't go so well either. So they felt they should't intervene in Syria (and largely Libya) and neither of those ended well either.

This feels incredibly simplistic. It portrays politicians as simply doing the opposite from last time as if there were no differences in circumstances, or changes in position on some conflicts, see former Yugoslavia as mentioned. I think you are falling prey to a form of pattern recognition.

[Nearly Sane]

Not attempting to argue here and admittedly might need some enlightenment however wasn't the intervention in Yugoslavia humanitarian, Afghanistan\Iraq to address a threat.

Also, we didn't intervene in Rwanda.

Not quite sure if this can count as 'humanitarian'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

[L.A.]

Not attempting to argue here and admittedly might need some enlightenment however wasn't the intervention in Yugoslavia humanitarian, Afghanistan\Iraq to address a threat.

Also, we didn't intervene in Rwanda.

I think you could argue that the intervention in Yugoslavia  was too little/too late, our intervention in Iraq was totally inappropriate and  our intervention is Afghanistan was necessary but suffered 'mission creep'.

Rwanda was a totally internal conflict and would have been much more difficult to anticipate or make timely intervention.

[Nearly Sane]

I think you could argue that the intervention in Yugoslavia  was too little/too late, our intervention in Iraq was totally inappropriate and  our intervention is Afghanistan was necessary but suffered 'mission creep'.

Rwanda was a totally internal conflict and would have been much more difficult to anticipate or make timely intervention.

other than I think our intervention in Yugoslavia never quite reached tgr coherence of too little/too late, I agree with this. Particularly about Rwanda where I don't see there was any intervention possible in the time needed.

[Hope]

There were two sensible options that we might have taken at the start of this conflict:

A/ Move a large battle fleet off the coast of Syria and make it clear to Bashar al-Assad that we would bomb the shit out of him if he didn't do as he was told.

B/ Tell the rebels 'tough luck! you're on your own'

Unfortunately we did neither.

Nor did we listen to many oif the minority groups within the Syrian population who, whilst not overly keen on Assad, acknowledged that he was their best chance of survival.  All too often the rebels we have been supporting have been at least as fundamentalist as ISIS.