BIBLE PROMISES

[floo]

If god created human nature it screwed up, so it is useless if that were the case.

[SusanDoris]

I wonder if the OP writer really thought that we would spend today looking up, reading and inwardly digesting all those Bible quotes?  As far as I can see the OP has spent her life chasing an always-elusive, never-reachable shadow. Such a waste of time.Maybe Sassy, NM and a few others will read and enjoy. Hmmm.

[Walter]

I wonder if the OP writer really thought that we would spend today looking up, reading and inwardly digesting all those Bible quotes?  As far as I can see the OP has spent her life chasing an always-elusive, never-reachable shadow. Such a waste of time.Maybe Sassy, NM and a few others will read and enjoy. Hmmm.

I like that SD , what a shame.

[SusanDoris]

I like that SD , what a shame.

Thank you - but I hope you don't mean that it's a shame you like my post!!

[Walter]

Thank you - but I hope you don't mean that it's a shame you like my post!!

SD please accept my  sincere apology  My use of grammar is under review at the moment, xx

[Anchorman]

Oh , now I get it , illicit substances and a copy of Readers Wives . Does it every time , fortunately most of us grow out of it though.

What 'illicit substances'?
I've never taken any such thing (though I did work in a voluntary capacity in a drug rehab 'safe house' in the early '80's, and know how damaging such substances can be.

[Anchorman]

I understand that, Anchor, because I had a similar experience.  It was quite profound actually.

Being a Christian has never made me think life is going to be perfect.  We will be ill, stressed, in difficulties, same as everyone else.  Life isn't easy but, to be fair, there are long periods of time which are pretty good.

I've never understood why people think God is useless because of illnesses, accidents, disasters, etc.   We live in an imperfect world and people are far from perfect.

Yes.
God did not promise those who follow Him a rose garden (quite the reverse if you read the Scripture).
If He did, though, every rose has its' thorns.

[2Corrie]

A quick Google shows that this OP is not a one off. I hope Rachel finds the answers they are looking for. And God's peace.

The Kingdom is not fully come yet. This is an imperfect world, I agree with Brownie. The Christian life is not promised to be easy. I will leave you with the Lord's  words "in this world you will have tribulation,  but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

[Brownie]

Rachel, I have a favourite Psalm.  When I am unsettled, mind racing, I find it very comforting.

Ps 131 v1-2 (NIV)  (The NJB and other Bibles used by Catholics, such as Knox, number the psalms differently.)

1 My heart is not proud, Lord,
    my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
    or things too wonderful for me.
2 But I have calmed and quieted myself,
    I am like a weaned child with its mother;
    like a weaned child I am content.

[Sassy]

What were the answers to your question from the other sites?

I have seen you have posted this on a number of sites some give a warning about the sites.

What I cannot understand is why you yourself ask questions as if you getting an answer depends on how you live your life and not on the basis of Gods word.


Maybe if you read what you?? have written  you can reach your own answers!

[NicholasMarks]

What were the answers to your question from the other sites?

I have seen you have posted this on a number of sites some give a warning about the sites.

What I cannot understand is why you yourself ask questions as if you getting an answer depends on how you live your life and not on the basis of Gods word.


Maybe if you read what you?? have written  you can reach your own answers!

You see Sassy...this is the thing I can't get my head round with the opening post which is that everyone I have come across who tries to follow Jesus in the way he taught us is buoyed up by it. It is an emotional thing. Jesus says, to me at least, that regardless of what pain or injury you are suffering from, the worst pain is the  emotional pain and if we get that right much of the other pain becomes bearable...even rectifiable. Now...I've studied this further and many of my responses reflect this...but...it is Jesus that is claimed to be failing here according to Rachel and I'm not sure that that is truly the case.

[SusanDoris]

I wonder what Rachel Henderson thinks of the replies so far and whether she will be back to respond?

[Brownie]

I hope so, Susan.

Nicholas, it does seem as though Rachel lays the blame for all the pain in life at the feet of the Lord.  I don't know what people expect really, we already discussed that this is not a perfect life for any of us.  It is unusual, however, for a Christian person to blame God for things going wrong.

If we had absolutely no problems in life, we wouldn't be ourselves.  Life can be difficult but it is interesting.

[NicholasMarks]

I hope so, Susan.

Nicholas, it does seem as though Rachel lays the blame for all the pain in life at the feet of the Lord.  I don't know what people expect really, we already discussed that this is not a perfect life for any of us.  It is unusual, however, for a Christian person to blame God for things going wrong.

If we had absolutely no problems in life, we wouldn't be ourselves.  Life can be difficult but it is interesting.

Hi Brownie. I.m not convinced that the author of this letter is giving us a genuine case study. There is something too refined about it and it brings in too many arguments from far and wide...and its presentation is first class. Looking for alternative motives it might be that a team of intellectual atheists might put something like this together to undermine what a follower in Jesus Christ might sometimes wonder about but as you know faith is usually greater than the problem.

We are living in difficult times so every aspect of our faith is likely to be tested...and I still can't see that when we each have an open invitation to bathe in the spiritual waters that quenches all inner thirsts how anyone can be missed, as indicated here.

[Nearly Sane]

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[Brownie]

You could be right, Nicholas.  Rachel has posted the same elsewhere, notably a Sam Harris site and Topix.  A lot of personal stuff.  I just reread the OP and this struck me:

(About her mother) ...I even called for the elders of the church to anoint my mother with olive oil, as the following scripture states in: James 5:14-15 - Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

The scripture obviously wasn't fulfilled in my mother's life who was a faithful Christian, and the lives of many other faithful Christians.


Surely no Christian person thinks we aren't ever going to be ill and die sooner or later?

Anointing of the sick can indeed make a sick person well, I have seen that happen, but being "well" in themselves doesn't automatically mean their physical ailment has disappeared.  The anointing is comforting and calming.  It's also given to people who are not terminally ill but who have a short or long term debilitating condition.

I'm not worried about Rachel posting this in different places to provoke Christians to re-examine (if that is indeed her purpose, and we don't know for certain); the issues she has raised are not new ones, we read them all the time on forums like this one.   We've had a good think which can't be bad.

I hope Rachel comes back to read the various, and varied, responses.

PS:  Just seen NS's post.  I have no idea who Rachel is, NS, so wouldn't speculate about her identity.   I presume she is 'Rachel', who wants to share her experiences and ask questions.

[floo]

No good blaming a god, which probably does not exist, or the long dead Jesus for any nastiness and  abuse. The blame rests on the shoulders of extreme Christians who use their very narrow dogma to try to frighten people in believing as they do.

[Anchorman]

Probably the prime example of faith whilst enduring suffering in New Testament times is Paul. There has been speculation as to the nature of his 'thorn in the flesh' - whether physical or spiritual. Either way, despite prayer, he was not healed, but given grace to endure and use his ailment for the Gospel. There are also several indicators that Paul's sight was failing even befor his appearance before the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem - and that this continued to the end of his life. Again, he remained faithful and was used in so many ways to advance the Kingdom. Sometimes, whether we like it or not, the answer to our prayer is either 'no' or 'not yet' - but always "I will be with you; always...."

[Brownie]

Paul may not have been cured of whatever ailed him but he was certainly spiritually healed, evidenced by the way he was able to cope and live his life to the full.   I do not think healing necessarily means curing.

As for all the 'ails' of the world, some come about naturally and others are caused by people.  That's life.  Running alongside are plenty of good and enjoyable things, it's easy to forget that when we are bogged down with bad news, illness or worries.

Every one of us must be able to remember times that were pretty good, even poor Rachel.   From what she said at the beginning of this thread, she and her mother seem to have espoused quite a strict, narrow type of faith;  is it any wonder that she says, "We did what God wanted, why did everything go wrong?".

Faith isn't a magic formula to stop earthquakes and disease.

Faith definitely doesn't exclude joy in 'ordinary' things.

[Anchorman]

Yep. That smacks of the detestable so-called 'Prosperity Gospel' stuff - which most Chrstians wouldn't touch with a ten foot barge pole. If we are supposed to live in the world - and Jesus made it very clear that we are - then we may as well share inthe prob;lems the world has in store.

[Brownie]

We agree on that, Anchor.

However, from what I've seen of those who are into the 'Prosperity Gospel', they are quite upbeat people (hee hee, Heaven preserve me from those who are constantly upbeat, they wear me out in five minutes).    I don't think Rachel and her mother went to that sort of church.
 
Rachel said: "My mother and I both repented, lived holy lives, with clean hands and pure hearts. God was first love and first priority. We prayed for at least 3 hours each and every day, and studied the Bible for at least 1 hour every day. Prayer was the very first thing in the morning. Our faith was very strong. We strove to obey God's commandments, including keeping the Sabbath day holy. We attended Sabbath services. We served God. Preached the true gospel. We both practiced abstinence, self-sacrifice and self-discipline......"

which doesn't sound very cheerful to me.  I visualise it as dark and narrow, rather puritan in 'flavour', with many constraints.

'Sacrifice' is an over used word for some Christians (& others).   Let's face it, we all make sacrifices quite naturally at different times without even thinking about it, but if we make a big deal out of the virtue of sacrifice, we're expecting reward and they aren't true sacrifices.  I hate the word in many ways.

Who knows?  Let's hope Rachel returns to share a bit more.

(It really is interesting to encounter so many different people of diverse opinion on forums.)

[Hope]

Greetings my fellow Christian brothers and sisters,

I love to speak the truth and I have very serious questions that I think many believers would like to know the answer to. Can you tell me please why does God's word promise so much and yet fulfils so very little to nothing in the lives of many devout Christians, in terms of, for example: long life, health, peace, joy and happiness, etc? Instead, I've seen many atheists who live very healthy, prosperous and happy lives and they obviously don't believe in keeping God's commandments. Doesn't the Bible lose credibility in this way? Isn't this part of the reason why many people don't take God, His commandments or the Bible seriously?

In other words, why do not all devout Christians live long lives and have optimum health as countless scriptures promise, such as: Psalms 84; 90, 91; 103; Pr 10:27, etc?

Hi Rachel, with the exception the Proverbs reference, there doesn't appear to be any promise of long lives and optimim health in the references from Psalms that you give above.  Interestingly, there is no such promise in the New Testament - where Jesaus reminds us that thr rain falls and the sun shines on everyone, believer or not.  The fact that you seem to feel that our lives here on earth have to be blessed in the way you suggest would suggest that you have missed the point of Jesus' teaching - that our rewards are of a very different nature.

[Hope]

The Bible was written by human beings, who have, since pre-history, imagined gods.

Susan, you and others have made this claim on numerous occasions over the years, both here and elsewhere.  No-one has ever produced any evidence to support the assertion, though.

[Hope]

I. on the other hand, find joy in every momment I spend with Christ.

Likewise

[Hope]

Rachel Henderson

Put simply , you have been conned

and wasted so much time praying to something that either isn't there or doesn't care . The results are the same ,you decide .
I know which I choose .
best wishes

A pity that neither you, nor anyone else has ever managed to produce any evidence to support the various assertions that you make in this post, Walter.