Author Topic: Welby vs Farage - the rematch  (Read 9933 times)

Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2016, 07:45:44 PM »
Nationalists are usually highly unpleasant people. :o
And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!

Anchorman

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2016, 09:23:21 PM »
And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!


Nah.....the brexiters are about all I can stomach.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Hope

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2017, 01:16:43 PM »
He didn't mention it directly but what else would he mean by in these uncertain times? Nothing else has changed from last year, 2015, except for Brexit and he wasn't harking on like this last year, using phrases like these uncertain times and implying things have got even worse than last year. This is what Farage responded to, and to Welby's lack of faith in the better future that Brexit could give us if it is handled properly.
Brexit is only one thing that has changed since 2015, Jack.  For instance, we have a President-Elect in the US who is somewhat unpredictable; we have - at least for the West - a new selection of terrorist formats; we have the inevitable instability that occurs in the lead up to General Elections - to be held in several European nations; we have a seemingly rejuvenated Russia under a leader who seems to feel constanmtly under threat; ...  That's just to name a few.
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jakswan

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2017, 02:07:16 PM »
Indeed and merely sort of repeating your's, I.e. making a different assertion doesn't give any strength to your opinion. And why have you switched from as 'toxic as Trump' to something different?

I still maintain that certainly amongst my friends Sturgeon is seen as toxic as Trump. I know its the fashion on this forum to demonise anyone with a different view but may I remind you that I have voted LibDem, Tory and Labour so I'm hardly a right wing extremist or lefty loon.

I do assert that the SNP spin a lot and have given examples, e.g. being anti-austerity for years yet when given the power to end austerity carry on with austerity. Yes I know they have excuses.   
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jakswan

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2017, 02:11:31 PM »
Would that be because you would want the best for the country you are from?

Well yes given that is where my vote would be counted. I actually think it would be in the interests of Scotland as well. The SNP pander to nationalistic anti-English fervour in Scotland and it prevents the SNP being properly held to account, I think with that issue solved it would result in better government for the people of Scotland. Not that I'm an expert but their record on Education isn't great is it?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2017, 06:07:57 PM »

Nah.....the brexiters are about all I can stomach.
You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!

Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2017, 06:22:11 PM »
Brexit is only one thing that has changed since 2015, Jack.  For instance, we have a President-Elect in the US who is somewhat unpredictable; we have - at least for the West - a new selection of terrorist formats; we have the inevitable instability that occurs in the lead up to General Elections - to be held in several European nations; we have a seemingly rejuvenated Russia under a leader who seems to feel constanmtly under threat; ...  That's just to name a few.
Uncertain, in this context means wholly new and unprecedented. So kind of yes with Trump but then this was kind of true of Bush (a chimp in a human costume), especially with hindsight. Elections? Nah!!!!! We have those all the time. And the EU has always been shit. Putin? Nah!!!!! That is due to the stupidity of the West and more applicably to the US bullish attitude. Anyway, Russia's iffyness has always been there. So what's left? Yes, that's right Brexit, which is a phenomena of the reaction against Neo Liberalism, which is what Farage is against. We are approaching a Post Neo-Liberalism era.

Anchorman

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!






Nope.
Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
I'm happy to say we voted - heavily - to REMAIN in the EU.
Hope that helps.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Hope

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2017, 07:24:08 PM »
Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
Out of interest, are there national breakdowns of the vote back in the 70s to join the EEC?  If so, which way did the Scots vote?
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Hope

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2017, 07:26:22 PM »
Uncertain, in this context means wholly new and unprecedented. So kind of yes with Trump but then this was kind of true of Bush (a chimp in a human costume), especially with hindsight. Elections? Nah!!!!! We have those all the time. And the EU has always been shit. Putin? Nah!!!!! That is due to the stupidity of the West and more applicably to the US bullish attitude. Anyway, Russia's iffyness has always been there. So what's left? Yes, that's right Brexit, which is a phenomena of the reaction against Neo Liberalism, which is what Farage is against. We are approaching a Post Neo-Liberalism era.
If I understand it correctly, we are fast approaching a Free trade free-for-all.  That is about as Neo-Liberal as one can get.  In fact, its possibly a retrogressive step to an earlier stage of British life.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2017, 07:29:25 PM »
Out of interest, are there national breakdowns of the vote back in the 70s to join the EEC?  If so, which way did the Scots vote?


See link, also note it wasn't a vote to join but to continue membership


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975

jakswan

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2017, 01:24:41 AM »
You didn't understand my post. You Nats want to join the EU which is one massive nation state in effect with all the bad points and very few of the good ones!

Not English though and for the rabid Scottish nationalists that is all that matters. :)
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Sebastian Toe

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2017, 12:19:12 PM »
And bigger the 'nation' the worse they are. Look at the EU!!!
And England is bigger than Scotland and Wales and NI put together!!!!!!!!!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
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Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2017, 08:18:59 PM »





Nope.
Scotland did not vote to JOIN the EU.
I'm happy to say we voted - heavily - to REMAIN in the EU.
Hope that helps.
Nope. Scotland didn't vote at all it was the UK that voted - tough shit to your lot.

Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2017, 08:21:54 PM »
If I understand it correctly, we are fast approaching a Free trade free-for-all.  That is about as Neo-Liberal as one can get.  In fact, its possibly a retrogressive step to an earlier stage of British life.
That depends on who is voted into power isn't it. We have a chance to leave the EU and so from there to get rid of all the Brussels lovers out of Westminster and install people who want to serve the British people.

Hope

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2017, 08:53:30 PM »
That depends on who is voted into power isn't it. We have a chance to leave the EU and so from there to get rid of all the Brussels lovers out of Westminster and install people who want to serve the British people.
And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK.  As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still.  Ironically, this is one area that we currently do better than the EU as a whole - and the 'put Britain first' attitude of some Brexit leaders is likely to put us many years backwards on the road towards global fairness.
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Hope

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2017, 08:58:24 PM »

See link, also note it wasn't a vote to join but to continue membership


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum,_1975
So, the Scots were somewhat lukewarm, eh?   ;) ;)

I wonder why they are so keen to remain now?  Does it have something to do with the amount of EU that comes into the Scottish economy?   ;) ;)

By the way, I've had to make the same point (re. remaining, rather than joining) to so many over the years, that I'm embarrassed to realise that I put the latter in my post.  My apologies.
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jakswan

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2017, 01:21:58 PM »
And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK.  As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still.

Really? I've not heard one politician campaign on that basis, the traditional ideological split between centre left / right is over how everyone gets richer and how much of a role governments should play in that.  Free trade will help the poorer countries since the EU has barriers for those outside.


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Jack Knave

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Re: Welby vs Farage - the rematch
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2017, 07:39:38 PM »
And that is precisely what will lead us into a Free Trade free-for-all, JK.  As one of the richest nations in the world, we have a moral duty to help the less well off around the globe and I'm afraid that many people are not interested in the less well off, but simply to ensure that the richest get richer still.  Ironically, this is one area that we currently do better than the EU as a whole - and the 'put Britain first' attitude of some Brexit leaders is likely to put us many years backwards on the road towards global fairness.
My post and jab was at the Neo-Liberal elites that are doing exactly what you are crying about. This is particularly true of the EU who with their custom tariffs and the like have kept other nations out of their market, especially ones that needed it like the African states. This has kept them poor; or perhaps poorer, due to the selfish, inward looking, "pulling up the draw bridge" attitude that some accuse us in doing in their 'Little Englander' chant. To call them two faced would be an insult to duplicity. It is the Western establishment that has caused the thing you are opposing.

Then for the African states etc. add to their woes the destructiveness of international aid that wipes out local markets and produce, and is used by the likes of the EU for soft power i.e. to impose their will, political outlook and culture on them. My statement of voting out the EU sycophantic turds in Westminster was to get rid of this class of people who are vindictive to such regions of the globe and get people who want to trade fairly with all the world.