Instinctive paganism

[Jack Knave]

Repetition is not argument.

Perhaps you should take full note of your own advice because you can be very repetitive,  claiming that an unqualified assertion is a valid argument.

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps you should take full note of your own advice because you can be very repetitive,  claiming that an unqualified assertion is a valid argument.

Why are you now lying?

[Jack Knave]

Why are you now lying?

Because the chair has become a bit too uncomfortable.

[Nearly Sane]

Because the chair has become a bit too uncomfortable.

Passably witty, but not an excuse for misrepresentation.

[Jack Knave]

Passably witty, but not an excuse for misrepresentation.

A tough audience!

You do know what an assertion is and if so when you making one?

[Owlswing]

That would be animism, not paganism, no ?  Paganism is poorly defined and derivative; animism is the closest thing to an indigenous religion for homo sapiens imv.

What is animism?

I am pagan but not, as far as I know, an anumist - so definition please!

[torridon]

What is animism?

I am pagan but not, as far as I know, an anumist - so definition please!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

[Owlswing]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

No I am not, nor is any pagan I know, an animist - we do NOT give "souls" to inanimate objects. Only living breathing entities, human and animal, have souls/life forces/personalities that can pass to the Summerlands

[Jack Knave]

No I am not, nor is any pagan I know, an animist - we do NOT give "souls" to inanimate objects. Only living breathing entities, human and animal, have souls/life forces/personalities that can pass to the Summerlands

What about Mother Earth?

[Owlswing]

What about Mother Earth?

The Gaia - yes but she is a humanoid Goddess - not the Planet! She is often depicted as a pregnant human female, her foetus being Planet Earth!

[Jack Knave]

The Gaia - yes but she is a humanoid Goddess - not the Planet! She is often depicted as a pregnant human female, her foetus being Planet Earth!

But when you said human or animal I thought you meant that literally. You say she is often depicted as a..... but that is a symbol not an actual entity.

You said, "... - we do NOT give "souls" to inanimate objects. Only living breathing entities, human and animal, have souls/life forces/personalities that can pass to the Summerlands

So how does she figure then in this statement; I don't think she breathes(?).

[Owlswing]

But when you said human or animal I thought you meant that literally. You say she is often depicted as a..... but that is a symbol not an actual entity.

You said, "... - we do NOT give "souls" to inanimate objects. Only living breathing entities, human and animal, have souls/life forces/personalities that can pass to the Summerlands

So how does she figure then in this statement; I don't think she breathes(?).

So your Christian God does not breathe?

[Jack Knave]

So your Christian God does not breathe?

Am an atheist so not only does my "God" not breathe it doesn't even exist. I was just following up on your statement that was all, taking it that pagans endow their deities, which are not animals, as aspects that have some form of life force.

[Owlswing]

Am an atheist so not only does my "God" not breathe it doesn't even exist. I was just following up on your statement that was all, taking it that pagans endow their deities, which are not animals, as aspects that have some form of life force.

I don't know what name might be applied to the 'life force' of the deities, mine and other's. in paganism. To be honest I have never even thought about its precise nature.

Pagan deities are seen as closer to humans, flawed, having their nasty side, their nice side, their raunchy side and, in one case, like myself, a taste foir a drop or two,  bottle or two of the hard stuff.

They are spritual, not having a physical body, but hey, I'm not intellectual enough to know which af the many -isms that the more well educated apply to such entities until I look them up and see if they fit!

[Sassy]

One on which to end the old year.

A few days ago I was reading and came across a short quote (if I can retrace my steps I'll post the exact words, though the following is a very close paraphrase) which runs something along these lines: "Paganism is based on an innate/inherent human reaction to the natural world. If every scrap of knowledge of Christianity, Judaism and Islam disappeared from the world overnight, they would and could never be recreated in anywhere near the same form (if at all), but paganism would."

Is there anything in this? I strongly suspect so.

Wishful thinking... Because before the things of paganism existed there had to be God who created the things their beliefs came from.
Paganism is just another word for Gentiles. Those who were not part of Gods chosen people.
We see that Abraham knew God and so did he first man. Paganism came long after God.
It came long after the first man. And throughout the world history shows mankind has always believed in a creator. You took the words of one man in his human state lacking God.
One lead by feeling and personal not choice, not be fact and truth.

God kept his covenant with the Jews he made them a great nation. One which prospered wherever they went and made those countries prosper too. A living statement to a living and powerful God who has the last word in everything.

Paganism exists because man exists and Gods creation.
God exists for all mankind regardless of anything created.

It is all a matter of being alive to Gods presence or being dead and only having the consciousness of what God created surrounding your being.

[Owlswing]

Wishful thinking... Because before the things of paganism existed there had to be God who created the things their beliefs came from.
Paganism is just another word for Gentiles. Those who were not part of Gods chosen people.
We see that Abraham knew God and so did he first man. Paganism came long after God.
It came long after the first man. And throughout the world history shows mankind has always believed in a creator. You took the words of one man in his human state lacking God.
One lead by feeling and personal not choice, not be fact and truth.

God kept his covenant with the Jews he made them a great nation. One which prospered wherever they went and made those countries prosper too. A living statement to a living and powerful God who has the last word in everything.

Paganism exists because man exists and Gods creation.
God exists for all mankind regardless of anything created.

It is all a matter of being alive to Gods presence or being dead and only having the consciousness of what God created surrounding your being.

Your entire argument collapses with the highglighted! This shows that you do not understand what Shaker said! Do not or refuse to, just as you refuse to understand, or even try to understand, anything that anyone says that does not fit your Christain version of the world and its history!

[Brownie]

You're building up, Sassy;  take a break.

[Sassy]

Your entire argument collapses with the highglighted! This shows that you do not understand what Shaker said! Do not or refuse to, just as you refuse to understand, or even try to understand, anything that anyone says that does not fit your Christain version of the world and its history!

Actually, using that reasoning then all would be Jews like Abraham.
The fact God was there with man at the beginning and created a first man and woman shows that something is missing in the argument. There are those who wonder and those who reason. You and shaker are in the wonder we the Christians are in the 'reason' because like Christ, we know beyond any shadow of doubt ONLY GOD can be the answer to creation.

Now if you have no other arguments stop pretending you know or understand the argument presented by Shaker when clearly his own post shows even he cannot explain what he was trying to say.

It is instinctive of mankind that there is a GOD who created everything. Rather than the pagan view being amplified.
Paganism is for people who rebel because they don't like the truth or want it to be true for them.

We both know you cannot make paganism about anything but that which man has created for himself even though he knows it is all false. But God and Jesus Christ are exceptional to say the least in that they meant something to mankind all the way through history. There has always been a GOD but paganism came much later from the created.

[Shaker]

The fact [...]

Long and dismal experience shows me that it's an infallible rule that whenever you use the word 'fact', it isn't one.

[Owlswing]

Long and dismal experience shows me that it's an infallible rule that whenever you use the word 'fact', it isn't one.

Amen to that, Shaker!

However here is a fact, or two, in fact; one, Sassy would not recognise a fact in the context of any religion other than Chritianity or the fact that most facts about Christianity are not facts at all, if said fact or facts were tied to a housebrick and she were hit in the head with it!

Two, Sassy would also not recognise the 97.5% of modern pagans and/or witches who DO NOT wear a ton and a half, at least, of arcane jewellery 24/7 if any number of them walked down the street towards her!

A sad truth this, that she vilifies that which she has absolutely no comprehension of!

[Rhiannon]

I'm an animist and a pantheist. I don't give things 'souls', I just think everything is alive or has an energy running through it to some extent or other.

[Sassy]

Well it got Rhiannon back! 

I guess the fact is most atheists are just not clued into the bigger picture.

Never will be because they don't have a foot in either camp.

[Owlswing]

Well it got Rhiannon back! 

I guess the fact is most atheists are just not clued into the bigger picture.

Never will be because they don't have a foot in either camp.

Unlike you, Sassy, who always have one foot firmly jammed in your mouth!

[jeremyp]

One on which to end the old year.

A few days ago I was reading and came across a short quote (if I can retrace my steps I'll post the exact words, though the following is a very close paraphrase) which runs something along these lines: "Paganism is based on an innate/inherent human reaction to the natural world. If every scrap of knowledge of Christianity, Judaism and Islam disappeared from the world overnight, they would and could never be recreated in anywhere near the same form (if at all), but paganism would."

Is there anything in this? I strongly suspect so.

Given that paganism means "Any non  Abrahamic religion" and there are/were thousands of them, it would be surprising if you couldn't find at least one to match your newly recreated religion.

[Shaker]

Given that paganism means "Any non  Abrahamic religion" and there are/were thousands of them, it would be surprising if you couldn't find at least one to match your newly recreated religion.

That's a broad definition - the passage I paraphrased was emphasising paganism in a definitionally narrower but in practical terms more numerically widespread sense of a spiritual path (even a religion, by some lights) with nature as its focal point of reverence. The implication is that if we reset the clock to zero and ran the experiment of Planet Earth again, paganism would revive (whereas Christianity et. al wouldn't, built as they are on alleged specific persons and events) because the human response to nature is innate and perennial.