Theology at Universities?

[Anchorman]

A heathen is someone who does not subscribe to an established religion, having or not having sexual intercourse does not alter that one bit.

ad_o, your remark is hardly an articulate, well thought out argument.  I thought better of you!

Yep.
I'd point out that the head of the Glasgow University faculty of theology (after my time, and but recently translated elswere, was a Moslem - Mona Sedequi.
That didn't stop many of all faiths, and none, studying the discipline.
Divinity with a view toward Christian ministry's a whole different issue here - part funded by the sate, part private, and part subsidised by the church(es) which sponsor the student.

[SusanDoris]

And? Politics is studied in the examination of what people believe and so is theology. Both cover elements of human behaviour. Trying to airbrush religion from human behaviour is odd. Why is it that studying this aspect of human behaviour causes you issues?

I can see this thread has been busy while I was (a) at the gym, then (b) *sigh* shopping at Tesco. My Assisted Shop assistant was very helpful as they always are. I will write this before putting everything away. *another sigh*!!

I did not say or indicate that religion should be air-brushed, or in any way removed from human behaviour or the study of such behaviour. It has of course been an integral part of human existence since pre-historic times. (as always, I'll mention here that I'd love to have been a fly on the wall observer in order to have heard the thoughts of those long-ago atheists, of whom there must have been quite a few, who would, of course, have kept quiet.) 

There are no aspects of human behaviour which should remain unstudied, but a degree in theology cannot include a fact about the God/god/s believed in by anyone.

As for Theology being taught by a staff of atheists, well, I'd like to hear of where this has happened and to investigate the philosophy and beliefs of those teachers!

I've read through other posts already, but think there were one or two points I'd like to refer to, so - back later.

ETA to add that, no, I do not have 'issues' with university courses except about truth; anything or anyone which/who tells children that a God/god/s exists in any form except as an idea in human minds is where I have an 'issue'. I speak as one who  was assured of the existence of God when young, even though no other religious doctrines were involved.

And final edit: Just because I said, 'I'm with Ippy on this one' does not mean that I think Theology should not be a university course, it is not my job to choose university courses, but I wish I was young enough to go and heckle at one!! They should be on the decline if they are not already.

[Nearly Sane]

I can see this thread has been busy while I was (a) at the gym, then (b) *sigh* shopping at Tesco. My Assisted Shop assistant was very helpful as they always are. I will write this before putting everything away. *another sigh*!!

I did not say or indicate that religion should be air-brushed, or in any way removed from human behaviour or the study of such behaviour. It has of course been an integral part of human existence since pre-historic times. (as always, I'll mention here that I'd love to have been a fly on the wall observer in order to have heard the thoughts of those long-ago atheists, of whom there must have been quite a few, who would, of course, have kept quiet.) 

There are no aspects of human behaviour which should remain unstudied, but a degree in theology cannot include a fact about the God/god/s believed in by anyone.

As for Theology being taught by a staff of atheists, well, I'd like to hear of where this has happened and to investigate the philosophy and beliefs of those teachers!

I've read through other posts already, but think there were one or two points I'd like to refer to, so - back later.

ETA to add that, no, I do not have 'issues' with university courses except about truth; anything or anyone which/who tells children that a God/god/s exists in any form except as an idea in human minds is where I have an 'issue'. I speak as one who  was assured of the existence of God when young, even though no other religious doctrines were involved.

Theology in UK universities isn't taught in a way that god+s) are taken as facts. Perhaps both you and ipoy need to consider that you have been objecting to a strawman based on your lack of knowledge of what happens? As for atheists, I don't know of any  departments that are manned entirely by atheists but both the university lecturers in theology that are friends are atheists, one bring completely secular, the other being a Buddhist.

[Nearly Sane]

Yep.
I'd point out that the head of the Glasgow University faculty of theology (after my time, and but recently translated elswere, was a Moslem - Mona Sedequi.
That didn't stop many of all faiths, and none, studying the discipline.
Divinity with a view toward Christian ministry's a whole different issue here - part funded by the sate, part private, and part subsidised by the church(es) which sponsor the student.

I think you may have identified the issue here. Anchorman, in that what ippy and Susan Doris might be addressing is Divinity rather than Theology.

[SusanDoris]

On another forum I once asked a question which met with a similarly deafeningly silent response: is there such a thing as good and bad theology, and how do you tell the difference?

No deafening silence on SofF!! All sorts of ideas, suggestions, etc, etc and an occasional point of view that I didn't know what I was talking about, but a very interesting discussion. I can't remember if I had the last word!

[SusanDoris]

Why shouldn't people be able to study whatever they like as long as someone is available and wants to teach it at that level?

Absolutely agree; however, how can you teach about God - because that point - i.e. existence of God(/god/s) - cannot be ignored in theology, can it.

[Nearly Sane]

On another forum I once asked a question which met with a similarly deafeningly silent response: is there such a thing as good and bad theology, and how do you tell the difference?

is there such a thing as good and bad philosophy and how do you tell the difference? Is there such a thing as good and bad politics and how do tpyou tell the difference? I can study Marxism and indeed critique it without having to be a Marxist. I can also gain an understanding of why people might believe it, how they have been challenged in their thought and what the responses have been. To he honest, I find most coverage of politics and philosophy at university follows the need to critique, and show flaws rather than understand. When you have read thirty junior politics essays on why Marx was wrong, you begin to wonder why Marx is read at all when there are all these hugely clever 19 year olds who know exactly why he ead wrong.


Similarly with theology, it's a fascinating subject with many ramifications for political thought, and an understanding of the human condition.

[Nearly Sane]

Absolutely agree; however, how can you teach about God - because that point - i.e. existence of God(/god/s) - cannot be ignored in theology, can it.

Again you don't seem to understand that this isn't how theology is taught at university in the UK. You seem to have it as a branch of philosophy confused with Divinity courses.

[Brownie]

Susan, at one time the Open University Theology/Religion module was taught by atheists.  It may still be the case but I am not up to date with what goes on there.

Ninian Smart was an agnostic Professor of Theology.

[SusanDoris]

I think you may have identified the issue here. Anchorman, in that what ippy and Susan Doris might be addressing is Divinity rather than Theology.

No, I am not thinking of the subject of divinity, nor is my post bringing up a strawman, unless you can show me to be wrong.  Since whatever the content of courses in theology is I doubt very much whether there is one which does not involve the study of some works of those who believe in the existence of God. Therefore, at the core of theology is an absence.

Break for lunch; and if my computer shows 'This page can't be displayed' when I come back, I shall NOT BE PLEASED"""

[floo]

My husband, then a 'born again' Christian, studied theology and science for his first degree, loosing his faith as a result of his studies.

[Nearly Sane]

No, I am not thinking of the subject of divinity, nor is my post bringing up a strawman, unless you can show me to be wrong.  Since whatever the content of courses in theology is I doubt very much whether there is one which does not involve the study of some works of those who believe in the existence of God. Therefore, at the core of theology is an absence.

Break for lunch; and if my computer shows 'This page can't be displayed' when I come back, I shall NOT BE PLEASED"""

. Of course it involves studying works by people who believe in god, are you honestly saying that we could study Marxism without reading those who believed in Marx and so therefore must all be Marxists if we study it.

By the way nice user of the Negative Proof Fallacy in the first sentence.

[ippy]

I think you may have identified the issue here. Anchorman, in that what ippy and Susan Doris might be addressing is Divinity rather than Theology.

I assume we are supposed to be living in an enlightened world and as such why is there still a subject like theology being put forward by universities, where and if any relevent aspect of theology is needed it can and should be brought up within the overall subject of philosophy.

I wouldn't expect to see state funding of the study of astrology in our universities, nor divinity or theology for an exactly similar reason.

ippy

[Brownie]

Agree with NS that the study of Religion/Theology will include works by people of faith, it is frequently taught and studied by people who have no faith or are agnostic.

(Floo, many have a loose faith .  Your old man obviously loosed it so much, it fell off!

Susan, just had Ocado delivery, Tesco arrives tomorrow.)

[Nearly Sane]

I assume we are supposed to be living in an enlightened world and as such why is there still a subject like theology being put forward by universities, where and if any relevent aspect of theology is needed it can and should be brought up within the overall subject of philosophy.

I wouldn't expect to see state funding of the study of astrology in our universities, nor divinity or theology for an exactly similar reason.

ippy

You seem to be clinging to your strawman that it is taught as factually true in theology courses that god(s) exist, why is this?

[Anchorman]

My husband, then a 'born again' Christian, studied theology and science for his first degree, loosing his faith as a result of his studies.

-
And?
Part of my degree course involved 'british' history.
That was not realluy succesful in helping me be a nice little brit.

[Brownie]

I get the impression ippy thinks it is a pointless subject, whether or not students have religious beliefs.

[ippy]

You seem to be clinging to your strawman that it is taught as factually true in theology courses that god(s) exist, why is this?

What makes you think of straw men NS, the only thing is perhaps your idea of the dictionary definition of theology differs from mine, I don't feel any need to describe things within you terms nor I guess visa versa for you; you, it seems to me, love long drawn our discussions about semantics, you can have them to your hearts content, just don't involve me in any of them.

ippy

[ad_orientem]

What makes you think of straw men NS, the only thing is perhaps your idea of the dictionary definition of theology differs from mine, I don't feel any need to describe things within you terms nor I guess visa versa for you; you, it seems to me, love long drawn our discussions about semantics, you can have them to your hearts content, just don't involve me in any of them.

ippy

Then you're in the wrong place, pal.

[ippy]

I get the impression ippy thinks it is a pointless subject, whether or not students have religious beliefs.

Yes that would be about right Brownie, I find religious belief to be irrational especially the magical, mystical and superstitious parts of them, zero evidence and all of that.

ippy

[ippy]

Then you're in the wrong place, pal.

I see you're still here, A O?

ippy

[SusanDoris]

Again you don't seem to understand that this isn't how theology is taught at university in the UK. You seem to have it as a branch of philosophy confused with Divinity courses.

Theology, then, is a study of what people over the centuries have believed about a God they believe exists? It is a study of human beliefs. It cannot contain a study of the 'nature of God', unless they provide the God first.

[Nearly Sane]

Theology, then, is a study of what people over the centuries have believed about a God they believe exists? It is a study of human beliefs. It cannot contain a study of the 'nature of God', unless they provide the God first.

which is how it is taught at UK universities, and why it is a perfectly sensible subject.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes that would be about right Brownie, I find religious belief to be irrational especially the magical, mystical and superstitious parts of them, zero evidence and all of that.

ippy

all human activity in that sense is irrational.

[SusanDoris]

Theology in UK universities isn't taught in a way that god+s) are taken as facts. Perhaps both you and ipoy need to consider that you have been objecting to a strawman based on your lack of knowledge of what happens? As for atheists, I don't know of any  departments that are manned entirely by atheists but both the university lecturers in theology that are friends are atheists, one bring completely secular, the other being a Buddhist.

Okay; how do they teach Theology without reference to God?