Correlation

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Where's your evidence that everybody who voted Leave was doing it "to teach people a lesson"?

What historical data are you comparing the result to?

Of course it was a huge piece of contrarianism.

[Shaker]

Of course it was a huge piece of contrarianism.

Well that's me convinced

[jeremyp]

Of course it was a huge piece of contrarianism.

There were two questions in the post. Before I believe your thesis I need you to answer both of them, not none of them.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There were two questions in the post. Before I believe your thesis I need you to answer both of them, not none of them.

You have to separate how Brexit won from why people voted for it.

The reasons why people voted for it mostly contain an element of spite for some group or other.

It was by turns anti European anti immigrant anti establishment anti metropolitan elite anti subsidised profession.

This is all well documented.

If there is an overwhelming alternative that people really thought it was good for everybody or a majority evidence has not come to light.

[Shaker]

You have to separate how Brexit won

That's the easy bit - more people voted for it than didn't.

from why people voted for it.

The reasons why people voted for it mostly contain an element of spite for some group or other.

And it's at precisely this point that we're going to have to wheel out the 'e' word again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

That's the easy bit - more people voted for it than didn't.
And it's at precisely this point that we're going to have to wheel out the 'e' word again.

You mean

Eebyeckshakerstryingtopolishaturdagain ?

[Shaker]

Personally I was thinking of the one that ends with '-vidence'.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Will to act in a way that makes others lives worse increases.

That's an odd thing to say given the huge body of evidence to the contrary. Here for example is a link to a talk that illustrates well your deep ignorance about what's actually happening:

https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_and_ola_rosling_how_not_to_be_ignorant_about_the_world

What you're actually doing by citing examples of occurrences you don't like is akin to asserting things to be worse by telling us that Tiddles has gone missing while ignoring a cure for cancer. What you should do is to address the net bad set against the net good, and to look for trends in both. 

Incidentally, as you seem keen to conflate corroboration with cause, should we then take the decline in religiosity to be causal of these remarkable (and continuing) improvements in the most people's lived experience?   

[jeremyp]

You have to separate how Brexit won from why people voted for it.

The reasons why people voted for it mostly contain an element of spite for some group or other.

Mostly? Can you quantify this please.

If there is an overwhelming alternative that people really thought it was good for everybody or a majority evidence has not come to light.

So all we have for Brexit is "mostly" the 52% voted out of spite (although no proper citations) and for historical data, which is needed to prove that it is getting worse, you still have provided nothing.

[BeRational]

The more churches in an area, the more crime there will be.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

That's an odd thing to say given the huge body of evidence to the contrary. Here for example is a link to a talk that illustrates well your deep ignorance about what's actually happening:

https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_and_ola_rosling_how_not_to_be_ignorant_about_the_world

Any relation to Hans Knees and Bumpsidaisy?
Well read on the way the world is are they?

[Rhiannon]

They themselves would say they don't advertise what they believe in. It's all secret rites though isn't it and one has to be specially predisposed.

The pagans I know claim special powers that us muggles don't or can't possess....that is natural abilities rather than gifts

Seriously?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Well read on the way the world is are they?

Yes - because they have facts to support them.

What's your excuse for ignoring them?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Yes - because they have facts to support them.

What's your excuse for ignoring them?

The way the world is.

[Shaker]

The way the world is.

What facts do you think you have to support what you take to be "the way the world is"?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

The way the world is.

What makes you think citing narrow individual stories you don't like tells you more about "the way the world is" than, you know, global statistics collated and published by reputable bodies like the UN looking at a wide range of indicators of wellbeing drawn from global sources? 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What facts do you think you have to support what you take to be "the way the world is"?

Syria, refugee crises, state of the environment, extinction rate, state of Europe, superpowers.

[Shaker]

See bluey's post above yours for an efficient refutation of what is anyway a random string of words. (I mean, "superpowers"?).

[Walt Zingmatilder]

See bluey's post above yours for an efficient refutation of what is anyway a random string of words. (I mean, "superpowers"?).

Oh yes.....Hillside said the word fact before Vlad did so he wins of course.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Syria, refugee crises, state of the environment, extinction rate, state of Europe, superpowers.

School attendance, disease reduction or elimination, life expectancy, female emancipation, growth in democratic countries, equality legislation...

Do the maths!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Oh yes.....Hillside said the word fact before Vlad did so he wins of course.

Er no - "Bluey" has pointed you to a source of facts that you've just ignored, which is not the same thing at all.

Tiddles going missing is a fact. So is the elimination of smallpox. Your mistake is to look only at the former and to extrapolate from it a supposed global truth.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

School attendance, disease reduction or elimination, life expectancy, female emancipation, growth in democratic countries, equality legislation...

Your list is full of the frighteningly easily overturned as can be seen in this country and others I'm afraid.

[Shaker]

Your list is full of the frighteningly easily overturned as can be seen in this country and others I'm afraid.

Where have or are these things been or are being overturned, here or elsewhere?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Your list is full of the frighteningly easily overturned as can be seen in this country and others I'm afraid.

You may think that (though I'm not sure how you think, say, the elimination of smallpox could be "overturned") but your assertion was that overall the world is a worse place, not that it could be. The evidence you just ignore though falsifies your claim.

A newspaper will report an old lady being mugged, but it won't report a thousand old ladies having their shopping paid for by kindly neighbours. Your mistake is to read the paper and to think that it's in some way indicative of the way the world is. If you really wanted to make an argument first have a look at the video, then try to tell us why the statistics are wrong.

[ippy]

It's a considered opinion walterPPK. Dawkins was a populariser. His universal Darwinian ideas chimed exactly with Thatcherism. There is not a Dawkinsian conclusion which cannot be harnessed to anti welfare self interest.

Our great leader R D on high, has declared the opposit view to this one you seem so keen to plant on him, several times to my knowledge, you can find it somewhere on YouTube, something about he wouldn't want to live in a Thatchorite system or world, he couldn't think of anything worse.

I learned of this at Sunday Dorkinsism classes, just after Dorkins in the sky worship time.

We're, secular humanists that is and we are thinking of setting up classes about Dorkinsism for very young children, any that are seven years old or younger, only we've found it's a realy effective way of gaining vunerable, gullible new recruits, to spread the word about thinking for themselves and how to not believe in any ideas that haven't got a schred of evidence to back them up; have you got any youngsters you'd like to send along Vlad?

ippy