Universalism

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Are we like rowing boats frantically trying to bail out the rising water of God and failing or will we be successful and stop the leak?

[floo]

Are we like rowing boats frantically trying to bail out the rising water of God and failing or will we be successful and stop the leak?

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh?

[Walter]

Are we like rowing boats frantically trying to bail out the rising water of God and failing or will we be successful and stop the leak?

actually ,I'm a little tea pot .

[Rhiannon]

Vlad, universalism is an interesting subject to discuss.

What on earth is your OP about though?

[Shaker]

It's the Vlad Random Word Generator running at full steam again.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's the Vlad Random Word Generator running at full steam again.

What?

People quote me........are you suggesting their stupid?

[Shaker]

*cough* 

[Rhiannon]

What?

People quote me........are you suggesting their stupid?

Priceless.

[Shaker]

Second laugh out loud of the day.

[ippy]

Vlad use modify and have another try.

Ippy

[Shaker]

Anybody want to kick off a discussion about the alleged thread topic, to wit, universalism?

Or shall we carry on pondering about spoons and camels and other random shit?

[Rhiannon]

Ok.

If God is all loving and all merciful then salvation has to be universal - it's not logical to believe that such a God could behave differently.

Yet scripture flatly contradicts this and universalists go with 'feelings' about God rather than 'facts' in the Bible (I know, I've been one).

As an aside, no other debate I've ever had has been so venomous as that I once had with a group of Christians on another forum years ago when I stated that I was a universalist. In the end I was told I wasn't welcome there.

[Shaker]

Ok.

If God is all loving and all merciful then salvation has to be universal - it's not logical to believe that such a God could behave differently.

Yet scripture flatly contradicts this and universalists go with 'feelings' about God rather than 'facts' in the Bible (I know, I've been one).

Hm. Does it though? I was reading around the subject not ever so long ago (I was researching something about the Quakers, I think, and followed a link to a link to a link to a link ... as you do) and the universalists think they have scriptural support for their position - they can and do dial up all the appropriate verses.

Perhaps the simple if rather dully predictable truth is that scripture contradicts itself and contradicts the contradictions all over the shop. Sloppy work for omnipotence, as I always say.

As an aside, no other debate I've ever had has been so venomous as that I once had with a group of Christians on another forum years ago when I stated that I was a universalist. In the end I was told I wasn't welcome there.

That's all-embracing love and charity for you.

[Rhiannon]

It's hard to justify scripturally. You can infer it and read it into certain passages. But Jesus is (apparently) pretty explicit about us being sheep and goats.

[floo]

What?

People quote me........are you suggesting their stupid?

Like as if anyone would dream of suggesting such a thing!

[Shaker]

It's hard to justify scripturally. You can infer it and read it into certain passages. But Jesus is (apparently) pretty explicit about us being sheep and goats.

Indeed. And as somebody once put it, "A God all mercy is a God unjust."

Can't see the chain of logic there, but no doubt that's just me.

[Rhiannon]

Indeed. And as somebody once put it, "A God all mercy is a God unjust."

Can't see the chain of logic there, but no doubt that's just me.

As a species we like to think of other people getting theirs. God is made in our image.

[Shaker]

As a species we like to think of other people getting theirs.

I know a big fancy-pants term for that!

God is made in our image.

Aye. You'd think we could have aimed a little higher, wouldn't you.

[Walter]

Rhiannon

Yet scripture flatly contradicts this and universalists go with 'feelings' about God rather than 'facts' in the Bible (I know, I've been one).

Rhiannon, I'm interested to know what caused the change, if you don't mind
.

[Nearly Sane]

Indeed. And as somebody once put it, "A God all mercy is a God unjust."

Can't see the chain of logic there, but no doubt that's just me.

though a god that believes in eternal punishment for something is also unjust.

[Shaker]

though a god that believes in eternal punishment for something is also unjust.

Exactly, for then punishment ceases to have any correctional function and becomes merely sadism - torture for its own sake.

[Walter]

though a god that believes in eternal punishment for something is also unjust.

does that mean both good and bad people live for eternity ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ok.

If God is all loving and all merciful then salvation has to be universal - it's not logical to believe that such a God could behave differently.

I disagree since love would allow a final parting of the ways surely.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ok.

If God is all loving and all merciful then salvation has to be universal - it's not logical to believe that such a God could behave differently.

Yet scripture flatly contradicts this and universalists go with 'feelings' about God rather than 'facts' in the Bible (I know, I've been one).

As an aside, no other debate I've ever had has been so venomous as that I once had with a group of Christians on another forum years ago when I stated that I was a universalist. In the end I was told I wasn't welcome there.

...and what are you guys trying to tell me on this board?

[Alan Burns]

If God is all loving and all merciful then salvation has to be universal - it's not logical to believe that such a God could behave differently.

Salvation is indeed offered to everyone.  And it is logical that in order to receive what is offered, you need to accept God's love and mercy.  God has given us the gift of free will in order that we can freely accept His love and forgiveness.  It is not logical for those who reject God's love and mercy to receive His gift of salvation.