Author Topic: President Elect Trump  (Read 213660 times)

Jack Knave

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2017, 08:45:32 PM »
I think posters are referring to the fact that you said the madness started 3 decades ago, implying that prior to that it was not 'madness'. Perhaps you could clarify?
Neo-Liberalism.....ok?

Jack Knave

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2017, 08:47:02 PM »
but you were talking earlier about you being able to ignore what he dies because you have some bigger picture, which is what I asked you about leadunh to your evasion above.
The picture is the need for change....

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2017, 08:51:03 PM »
My post to JP was about how people only protest when it is obvious that they are being screwed etc. They seem to have failed to see how they have been screwed over the years by an insidious system which some seem to want to be back in power.
A minority, in the case of voting Americans.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Jack Knave

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2017, 08:51:19 PM »
Your statement that the madness started 3 decades ago, and is some specific thing you are stating.if it wasnymadness before, surely the implication is that it was better?
Better is a strange word. Neo-Liberalism has given us the crash of 2008 and nothing about that has been dealt with, in fact it has been heap upon to greater proportions and a humongous disintegration will take place.

Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2017, 08:54:06 PM »
The picture is the need for change....
The need for change isn't a picture, what needs to change and how?we could change things by killing all gingers, should we? If not why not?


The people you seem to say are trying not to change, are, I would argue, those that have been fighting for change more obcpviously than those supporting Trump. Indeed change has been one of the things that has been used as a thing to be avoided.


I am cynical about grand plans generally, but when the grand plan you seem to offer is to create any type of change then I doe see how you can either evaluate it or having any aim in sight.

Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2017, 08:56:11 PM »
Better is a strange word. Neo-Liberalism has given us the crash of 2008 and nothing about that has been dealt with, in fact it has been heap upon to greater proportions and a humongous disintegration will take place.
Why is better a strange word in your approach that this 'madness started some three decades ago'? If it's madness surely you the nk that it wasn't madness before?


JP

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2017, 09:05:42 PM »
The situation wasn't quite as desperate or as urgent as it is now that the Orange One is behind the big desk. US women, for example, are stockpiling the morning after pill for a reason. It's considered highly likely that President Fart is going to install a conservative justice, making the Supreme Court majority conservative. If he decides to go after Roe v. Wade, as he has indicated that he will*, that could put abortion rights at serious risk.

So let me get this right. The situation was desperate and urgent before Trump, just not quite as much so? Wtf have these protesters been doing then, where have they been, where was the global fight before Trump?

How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2017, 09:12:20 PM »
So let me get this right. The situation was desperate and urgent before Trump, just not quite as much so? Wtf have these protesters been doing then, where have they been, where was the global fight before Trump?
The protesters were protesting - I can only assume that either (a) they didn't receive as much media coverage (although I seem to have picked up on it nonetheless) or (b) you weren't paying attention.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

JP

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2017, 09:17:17 PM »
Yes, the sisterhood.  Women support each other round the globe, against attacks and prejudice, and as you say, also defend other minorities, e.g. LGBT, black people, Muslims.  Right wing governments (and individuals) tend to attack such people.

The global sisterhood eh? Where would that be. All I can see so far are people worried about getting the morning after pill or an abortion.

I have never seen a mass movement to help bring an end to FGM, honour killings, or to help women who are treat like animals in domestic slavery.

Oh hang on though, a win for the global sisterhood. I see they have managed to get the Brownies to allow anyone who identifies as female to join, so your 9 year old daughter could be in a dorm with someone who has a penis, and as a parent you will not be allowed to know that.
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

JP

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2017, 09:19:27 PM »
The protesters were protesting - I can only assume that either (a) they didn't receive as much media coverage (although I seem to have picked up on it nonetheless) or (b) you weren't paying attention.

Protesting for what?
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2017, 09:24:27 PM »
The global sisterhood eh? Where would that be. All I can see so far are people worried about getting the morning after pill or an abortion.
Which typically tends to be disproportionately women, generally speaking, i.e. that segment of the population which can get pregnant.

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I have never seen a mass movement to help bring an end to FGM, honour killings, or to help women who are treat like animals in domestic slavery.
I can only assume you haven't been looking.

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Oh hang on though, a win for the global sisterhood. I see they have managed to get the Brownies to allow anyone who identifies as female to join, so your 9 year old daughter could be in a dorm with someone who has a penis, and as a parent you will not be allowed to know that.
That's a worrying thing, is it?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

JP

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How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2017, 10:03:44 PM »
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C24NoJSWQAYLSAH?format=jpg&name=large
Is there supposed to be some point to this twaddle created by some clown who clearly doesn't understand the term 'false equivalence'?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Brownie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2017, 11:02:11 PM »
-------
I have never seen a mass movement to help bring an end to FGM, honour killings, or to help women who are treat like animals in domestic slavery.

---------

I can assure there are such movements, also involved in stopping children being married off to old men.   You only have to google and you'll find out about them and how you can help because it isn't just women who care about such things;  support from men is welcome.

PS:  I just came across this article whilst looking for news about Trump defunding the Planned Parenthood organisation:
http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/23/14356582/trump-global-gag-rule-abortion
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 11:42:44 PM by Brownie »
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Sriram

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2017, 06:04:10 AM »


Today I heard on CNN one person from Canada criticizing his PM for inaction....and actually praising Trump for his fast pace of working. 

Maybe that is what is bothering people everywhere. Too much analysis, too much talk, too many 'experts'.....but very little actual change on the ground. People perhaps want to see something stirring, even if a little troubling.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #115 on: January 24, 2017, 07:41:24 AM »

Today I heard on CNN one person from Canada criticizing his PM for inaction....and actually praising Trump for his fast pace of working. 

Maybe that is what is bothering people everywhere. Too much analysis, too much talk, too many 'experts'.....but very little actual change on the ground. People perhaps want to see something stirring, even if a little troubling.
Much better to take your time and make the right decision, informed by people who know what they are talking about rather than rush into a hasty ill informed decision and regret at leisure.

This idea that experts are somehow a problem is becoming pervasive and just about the most dangerous aspect of this whole 'populist' wave.

torridon

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #116 on: January 24, 2017, 07:49:16 AM »

Today I heard on CNN one person from Canada criticizing his PM for inaction....and actually praising Trump for his fast pace of working. 

Maybe that is what is bothering people everywhere. Too much analysis, too much talk, too many 'experts'.....but very little actual change on the ground. People perhaps want to see something stirring, even if a little troubling.

That's humans for you.  We'd often prefer to believe a naive gratifying lie rather than take the trouble to think things through in depth.

JP

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #117 on: January 24, 2017, 08:05:10 AM »
I can assure there are such movements, also involved in stopping children being married off to old men.   You only have to google and you'll find out about them and how you can help because it isn't just women who care about such things;  support from men is welcome.

PS:  I just came across this article whilst looking for news about Trump defunding the Planned Parenthood organisation:
http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/23/14356582/trump-global-gag-rule-abortion

I know there are people campaigning. I spend a fair bit of time in the car and leave radio 4 on for most of the time, including women's hour. There are small but steady pressure groups at work but nobody in Liverpool or London organising a mass march against it though, although they can manage one for a bloke who will have no bearing on their rights as a woman in the UK.

I ikno
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

JP

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #118 on: January 24, 2017, 08:17:06 AM »
Is there supposed to be some point to this twaddle created by some clown who clearly doesn't understand the term 'false equivalence'?

What is the feminist obsession with the vagina?

Ashley Judd....

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And our pussies ain’t for grabbin’. Therefore, reminding you that our walls are stronger than America’s ever will be. Our pussies are for our pleasure. They are for birthing new generations of filthy, vulgar, nasty, proud, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Sheikh—you name it—for new generations of nasty women. So if you [are] a nasty woman or love one who is, let me hear you say, “HELL YEAH!”

And yet, there seemed to be no problem with Bill Clinton who did more than grab a pussy.

She also said

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Blacks are still in shackles and graves just for being Black

Really, even after eight years of Obama. Where was she then, where did she protest then?

https://ello.co/ellowrites/post/sq-ovph3frmwjzcbvdcoiq
How can something so perfect be so flawed.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #119 on: January 24, 2017, 08:33:09 AM »
And yet, there seemed to be no problem with Bill Clinton who did more than grab a pussy.
You may claim to have Radio 4 on a bit and yet you come across as woefully ill-informed. Plenty of people have been  - to put it mildly - vocally critical of Clinton, W. J. and Clinton, H. R. both.

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Really, even after eight years of Obama.

Yes, still, alas. Perhaps a good deal less Radio 4 and a bit of a broader outlook would reveal these things. You ask

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Where was she then, where did she protest then?
All over the shop. Try Wikipedia:
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While she is best known for an ongoing acting career spanning more than two decades, she has increasingly become involved in global humanitarian efforts and political activism [...]
Ashley Judd's humanitarian work has revolved around AIDS. Judd has travelled with YouthAIDS to places affected by illness and poverty such as Cambodia, Kenya, Rwanda, and many others.

Inspired by her travels, which allowed her to witness the life of the poor and uneducated, she has since become an advocate for preventing poverty and promoting awareness internationally. She has met with political and religious leaders, heads of states, diplomats, and leaders on behalf of the deprived to convey the message to those who have the power to bring about political and social change. Judd has also narrated three documentaries for YouthAIDS which aired internationally on the Discovery Channel, in National Geographic, and on VH1.

In 2011, she joined the Leadership Council of the International Center for Research on Women (ICRW).

Other organizations Judd has been involved with include Women for Women International and Equality Now, along with other non-governmental organizations that direct attention to social, educational, health, economic, cultural and financial funding of the unfortunate.

Judd is active on the speakers' circuit, giving speeches about humanitarian topics.

Judd has supported the following charities and foundations:

Children's Medical Research Institute
Creative Coalition
Defenders of Wildlife
Eracism Foundation
Five & Alive
Jeans for Genes
International Center for Research on Women (ICRW)
Listen Campaign
Malaria No More
Population Services International
SixDegrees.org
YouthAIDS
Women for Women International
Equality Now
San Francisco Child Abuse Prevention Center

She was appointed Global Ambassador for YouthAIDS, an education and prevention program of the international NGO Population Services International (PSI), promoting AIDS prevention and treatment. Judd was honored November 10, 2009, as the recipient of the fourth annual USA Today Hollywood Hero, awarded for her work with PSI. On October 29, 2006, Judd appeared at a "Women for Ford" event for Democratic Tennessee Senate candidate Harold Ford, Jr. She has also campaigned extensively locally and nationally for a variety of Democratic candidates, including President Barack Obama in critical swing states.

On September 8, 2010, CNN interviewed Judd about her second humanitarian mission to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Judd traveled with the Enough Project, a project to end genocide and crimes against humanity. In the interview, Judd discussed her efforts to raise awareness about how conflict minerals fuel sexual violence in Congo. During her trip, Judd visited hospitals for victims of sexual violence, camps for displaced persons, mines, and civil society organizations.


Does that answer your question?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 08:43:37 AM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Aruntraveller

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #120 on: January 24, 2017, 08:41:53 AM »

Today I heard on CNN one person from Canada criticizing his PM for inaction....and actually praising Trump for his fast pace of working. 

Maybe that is what is bothering people everywhere. Too much analysis, too much talk, too many 'experts'.....but very little actual change on the ground. People perhaps want to see something stirring, even if a little troubling.

Oh yes - because not planning for things always works out for the best. ::)
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Sriram

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #121 on: January 24, 2017, 09:33:04 AM »
That's humans for you.  We'd often prefer to believe a naive gratifying lie rather than take the trouble to think things through in depth.



There is...'paralysis by analysis'.  And also intellectual solutions that are not always emotionally satisfying.   

torridon

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #122 on: January 24, 2017, 09:35:04 AM »


There is...'paralysis by analysis'.  And also intellectual solutions that are not always emotionally satisfying.   

rather like religions, then ....

Sriram

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #123 on: January 24, 2017, 09:54:51 AM »
rather like religions, then ....


Well...actually Trump means nothing to me. I live far away. But there are some parallels with the situation in India.

Our present PM Modi is the opposite of Trump in many ways ....he is not highly educated, had humble beginnings, is a teetotaler, believes in celibacy and so on. But he is  an impulsive decision maker like Trump. And it works!  Most Indians are loving him and his emotional, brusque style. Something getting done at last!

His predecessor was a PhD from Harvard...very intellectual, quiet, modest and all that. But a lame duck PM, dull,  always status quo. No action at all!

Maybe a similar sentiment is at work with Trump.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 09:56:54 AM by Sriram »

Outrider

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #124 on: January 24, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
Well...actually Trump means nothing to me. I live far away. But there are some parallels with the situation in India.

Unfortunately, I think Trump (and, more broadly, the Republican dominated house and senate that are operating with/alongside him) means a lot to us all. His policies on power and fossil fuels will undermine the climate agreements that, as one of the most influential economies in the world, are predicate on the involvement of the major players in order to operate. His policies on reducing global intervention opens up the field to the expansionists in Russia and China. His policies on biotechnology and reproductive rights will influence the major American firms working in this area, who are the majority players in the field. Whether you appreciate it or not, there isn't really anyone for whom Trump's election should be seen as an unimportant event.

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Our present PM Modi is the opposite of Trump in many ways ....he is not highly educated, had humble beginnings, is a teetotaler, believes in celibacy and so on. But he is  an impulsive decision maker like Trump. And it works!  Most Indians are loving him and his brusque style. Something getting done at last!

Movement rather than progress...

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His predecessor was a PhD from Harvard...very intellectual, quiet, modest and all that. But a lame duck PM, dull,  always status quo. No action at all!

Maybe a similar sentiment is at work with Trump.

Yes, a very similar sentiment. Uneducated, ignorant people with little real grasp of the knock-on effects, who think that there are simple solutions to complex problems voting for people are prepared to say whatever it takes to get approval, and the consequences be damned. It has always been the problem with democracy, that the people get what they want, not necessarily what is best for them or the situation.

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