President Elect Trump

[Gordon]

Perhaps we're all now in the Twilight Zone and Trump is a genius.

To most of us plebs his edicts look like precipitous and ill-planned interventions taken with less diligence than he'd employ choosing the carpets for his latest hotel: not how we expect international politics to be done. Then again he has dramatically moved the line in the sand, so that even if he retreats a little the new line in the sand isn't where it was before, and presumably he's done this far more quickly than would otherwise have been the case.

Reminds me a bit of a syllogism I always thought applied to most senior NHS managers I encountered during my working life: 'something must be done, this is a something, therefore let's do this'.

As regards the State Visit no doubt he'll be encouraged to diplomatically postpone (to be announced at a point when the international news agenda is preoccupied with other matters).

     

[wigginhall]

There may be method in his madness.  I mean, that a total Muslim ban is probably not going to work, partly because it would be bad for business and trade, and also would annoy allies, such as the Saudis, and would freak out European allies.   So he has picked on 7 poor countries, who are probably not involved much in US business. 

He is certainly talking to his base, whether or not the opposition will be substantial, is unclear.   And the long term effects seem totally unpredictable. 

And it may be a godsend to ISIS recruiters and propaganda workers, who will surely milk this as much as possible.  'We told you the US hates Muslims, now they can't even travel to the US', and so on.   

[JP]

ETA: JP - do you have a link to the petition against King Salman - when I Googled it, I got news about the petition against Trump?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/118022

If you had signed it there would have been **drum roll** 401 signatories.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Yes - I didn't know there was a Katy Hopkins petition either - interesting what the media choose to focus on. I would have shared the petition so probably more than 401.

Anyway Trump's ban is part of his America First publicity stunt. He knows he needs to be seen to be doing something to satisfy the baying masses (even if he leaves Saudi Arabia off the list), while the US arms industry can carry on business as usual selling terrorism abroad, and hope that there won't be a tipping point when too many US citizens die from blow-back terrorism at home. His policy on arms spending seems undecided and his tweets seem t cause the value of stocks of the arms industry companies to fluctuate a bit  - he wants cost-cutting and also increased spending on arms. As an America First businessman he wants the US to have lots of weapons that kill people in other countries effectively at a cheaper price.

http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-12-16/defense-stocks-not-so-safe-after-all-under-donald-trump-ba-lmt

[wigginhall]

Blowback is an interesting one.   I would think that ISIS are cockahoop at the moment, what a propaganda gift.   They will be already printing the leaflets and making the videos - 'the US hates Muslims', and so on.   But who can say how this will pan out - totally unpredictable.    How will Iran react? - make a nuclear bomb? - no idea. 

[JP]

We will be in for four whole years of this as most anything Trump does will elicit howls of anger followed by mass protests claiming Trump is a fascist, no return to the 1930's etc, blah, blah, blah.

All bollocks of course. The left are just showing their true colours, people who do not respect the fact that he won the election, shed tears when they do not get their own way. They are protesting against democracy as they are bad losers.

What they don't realise is, that they helped put Trump to get to the Whitehouse. They thought it was theirs but when people went into the ballot booth, those who were silent outside voted for Trump inside, and what the lefties are doing now is setting the fertile ground for him to be there for a further four.

I voted to stay in the EU but if there was another vote I would vote go just because of the insufferable remain lot. I have no time from Trump but if I was a Yank.....

[Walter]

JP
I tend to agree with you . And he displays all the traits of an excellent sales person (make good your promises).
Also , if we live in a capitalist society countries should be run by business people if the bottom line is so important.

[wigginhall]

Yes, I think business is to the fore here, since countries such as the Saudis, with whom both the US and Trump have commercial and military ties, are exempt from the ban, even though they have sponsored terrorism, and of course, most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. 

[Walter]

Yes, I think business is to the fore here, since countries such as the Saudis, with whom both the US and Trump have commercial and military ties, are exempt from the ban, even though they have sponsored terrorism, and of course, most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.

liking who you do business with is irrelevant as long as all your goals are being met.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

liking who you do business with is irrelevant as long as all your goals are being met.

You do know that six of Trump's companies filed for bankruptcy - 3 in Atlantic City, the Plaza Hotel in New York in the 1990s, then Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts in 2004 and Trump Entertainment Resorts in 2009.

Being a good salesman isn't enough to be a good businessman. The bottom line relies on controlling costs - and Trump is clearly rubbish at that.   

[Walter]

You do know that six of Trump's companies filed for bankruptcy - 3 in Atlantic City, the Plaza Hotel in New York in the 1990s, then Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts in 2004 and Trump Entertainment Resorts in 2009.

Being a good salesman isn't enough to be a good businessman. The bottom line relies on controlling costs - and Trump is clearly rubbish at that.

Hmm, he certainly missed out not having you on his team eh?

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

We will be in for four whole years of this as most anything Trump does will elicit howls of anger followed by mass protests claiming Trump is a fascist, no return to the 1930's etc, blah, blah, blah.

All bollocks of course. The left are just showing their true colours, people who do not respect the fact that he won the election, shed tears when they do not get their own way. They are protesting against democracy as they are bad losers.

Protests are hallmarks of democracy and legitimate expressions of free speech - even Trump acknowledged that about the Women's March - and these are British values.

Let's not pretend there weren't some protests and even racial incidents after Obama was elected, in protest of his election. This included a life-sized likeness of Obama hanging from a noose at the University of Kentucky, the torching of a mainly black Church in Massachusetts, and some assaults of Obama supporters.

What they don't realise is, that they helped put Trump to get to the Whitehouse. They thought it was theirs but when people went into the ballot booth, those who were silent outside voted for Trump inside, and what the lefties are doing now is setting the fertile ground for him to be there for a further four.

I voted to stay in the EU but if there was another vote I would vote go just because of the insufferable remain lot. I have no time from Trump but if I was a Yank.....

You're right that people became fed up with not being heard and voted for Trump. Not sure what they hoped to achieve - there are no easy solutions and simplistic, decisive action might make them feel better for a little while but it also creates a whole load of other problems. Some people are more focused on the harm caused by Trump's policies than they are on the feel-good nationalism that doesn't actually solve anything if Trump is going to continue to meddle in the rest of the world.

[Stranger]

All bollocks of course. The left are just showing their true colours, people who do not respect the fact that he won the election, shed tears when they do not get their own way. They are protesting against democracy as they are bad losers.

Who is protesting against democracy?

Democracy is not a dictatorship of the majority, still less should it be a dictatorship of a minority by virtue of the vagaries of an electoral system (as is the case for both the Orange Bigot and the UK government). Everybody in a functioning democracy should have the right to peaceful protest.

I voted to stay in the EU but if there was another vote I would vote go just because of the insufferable remain lot.

Nobody voted for the plan the PM is now proposing. Just one example: what happened to the £350 million per week that was going to fund the NHS ( http://tinyurl.com/zf8mrxt )?

[Sriram]

The right wing wave and anti open door policy has been coming for some time now. It is almost everywhere.  Trump is not the cause, only a symptom.

[JP]

And those who protest did not see it coming through their smugness.

[JP]

Who is protesting against democracy?

Democracy is not a dictatorship of the majority, still less should it be a dictatorship of a minority by virtue of the vagaries of an electoral system (as is the case for both the Orange Bigot and the UK government). Everybody in a functioning democracy should have the right to peaceful protest.

Nobody voted for the plan the PM is now proposing. Just one example: what happened to the £350 million per week that was going to fund the NHS ( http://tinyurl.com/zf8mrxt )?

Not that I disagree, but neverending democracy by way of constant elections and protests, nevererendums and petitions.

Supposing they bring Trump down. How well do you think that would be received and do you think the next round would help to heal or would it fracture even further. Supposing the Democrats win and the Republicans take to the street, after all it worked the last time so we can bring them down like they brought us down. Perpetual "democracy".

[Walter]

And those who protest did not see it coming through their smugness.

brilliant 

[JP]

brilliant 

**doffs cap**

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

And those who protest did not see it coming through their smugness.

Where do you get the idea from that people did not see it coming? They saw it coming and were protesting long before the US 2016 election. There were numerous anti-GOP, anti-right-wing protests in the US and anti-EDL and other anti-right wing extremist protests here in the UK. Especially after Al-Qaeda types and the arms industry started pushing the "clash of civilisations" narrative in an attempt to cause division and gain more support from that division to further their own agendas. There were also many protests against corporate greed, that resulted in ordinary people being left behind while a tiny minority made huge profits and avoided tax.

People protested then and are continuing to protest because division is what extremists in all parts of the world unite under. Not surprising therefore that people are not going to sleep-walk into the "them and us" nationalism that Trump and various extremist militants are trying to create, because they see it as a threat to peace and stability for their families. Of course they are going to continue protesting. Not sure why you would expect them to shrug their shoulders and not protest against threats to the people they care about.

[JP]

Methinks you have the wrong end of the stick

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Methinks you have the wrong end of the stick

Which part of the stick specifically are you referring to?

People are protesting against Trump because they think his policies are divisive and do not solve the problems they want solved. I am not just talking about this temporary 90 day ban of citizens from countries that have not committed terrorist attacks on US soil, while allowing in citizens from countries who have committed terrorist acts on US soil.

[JP]

Read #218

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Read #218

I did. You responded to #218 in #219 that those protesting did not see it coming and I responded to your #219 comment in #223 that they did see it coming and were protesting against the right-wing agenda for a long time before trump was elected. You still haven't answered my question - what makes you think they did not see it coming?

[JP]

I did. You responded to #218 in #219 that those protesting did not see it coming and I responded to your #219 comment in #223 that they did see it coming and were protesting against the right-wing agenda for a long time before trump was elected. You still haven't answered my question - what makes you think they did not see it coming?

I am making the assumption here that we are both taking about the protestors, the left, the democrats.

Okay. Tell me in simple terms what it was they saw coming. No add-ons, no point to make, just what it was they saw coming.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Firstly, all the people protesting aren't Democrats. Many Republicans opposed Trump being the Republican candidate and now that he is President, there are Republicans who oppose his policies.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/25/john-mccain-donald-trump-voter-fraud-torture/97059232/

In answer to your question - many of the people protesting saw divisive politics, nationalism, and a right-wing agenda based on simplistic slogans winning the US election and they protested against it both before and after the election.

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

I think many people were afraid Trump was going to win the election, and are exercising their democratic right to protest against his divisive policies, because they cannot see that the policies solve any of the problems people are concerned about - it just seems to be empty posturing to temporarily and arbitrarily ban people from countries that have never committed a terrorist act on US soil while not banning people from Saudi Arabia - what happened to protecting people in the US from acts like 9/11 where most of the terrorists were apparently from Saudi Arabia?