Author Topic: President Elect Trump (Read 211711 times)

wigginhall · « **Reply #225 on:** January 30, 2017, 04:20:35 PM »

One of the strangest aspects of this ban is that people already living in the US may be affected. There are reports that Iranians who live in the US (about 1 million), dare not leave, as they may not be allowed back.

This seems both unjust and amateurish, and it's hard to believe that it will make the US safer.

wigginhall · « **Reply #226 on:** January 30, 2017, 04:28:43 PM »

Quote from: Gabriella on January 30, 2017, 04:16:56 PM

Firstly, all the people protesting aren't Democrats. Many Republicans opposed Trump being the Republican candidate and now that he is President, there are Republicans who oppose his policies.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/25/john-mccain-donald-trump-voter-fraud-torture/97059232/

In answer to your question - many of the people protesting saw divisive politics, nationalism, and a right-wing agenda based on simplistic slogans winning the US election and they protested against it both before and after the election.

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

I think many people were afraid Trump was going to win the election, and are exercising their democratic right to protest against his divisive policies, because they cannot see that the policies solve any of the problems people are concerned about - it just seems to be empty posturing to temporarily and arbitrarily ban people from countries that have never committed a terrorist act on US soil while not banning people from Saudi Arabia - what happened to protecting people in the US from acts like 9/11 where most of the terrorists were apparently from Saudi Arabia?

You can add to that Turkey, Pakistan, Qatar, and Afghanistan, where terrorism has been sponsored or harboured. I'm guessing that Trump is exempting richer countries, where the US does business? Doesn't apply to Afghans. Money talks.

wigginhall · « **Reply #227 on:** January 30, 2017, 04:40:27 PM »

I imagine that this will increase Islamist radicalization around the world, but then Trump will probably say, told you so.

JP · « **Reply #228 on:** January 30, 2017, 05:38:34 PM »

Quote from: Gabriella on January 30, 2017, 04:16:56 PM

In answer to your question - many of the people protesting saw divisive politics, nationalism, and a right-wing agenda based on simplistic slogans winning the US election and they protested against it both before and after the election.

The dazed, slack jawed, weeping, teddy bear clutching democrats who were waiting for Hilary to win did not suggest to me that they saw it coming. Unlike Micheal Moore they clearly did not see the writing on the wall even though it had been appearing for a long time. Probably due to an inability to see things through the eyes of another. Same as the stunned silence that followed the Brexit vote, same type of people did not see that coming either for the same reasons.

There is now momentum and Europe awaits the elections in The Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy.

JP · « **Reply #229 on:** January 30, 2017, 05:48:45 PM »

Quote from: wigginhall on January 30, 2017, 04:40:27 PM

I imagine that this will increase Islamist radicalization around the world, but then Trump will probably say, told you so.

Might, might not. Even if we never know he can be the worlds whipping boy so any future Paris x 7, Nice, Berlin, Istanbul, Brussels x 2 can be blamed on him.

Tbh I think there is enough for the radicals to be going on. Israel does very well for a small country and they hate the USA for being the USA anyway.

JP · « **Reply #230 on:** January 30, 2017, 05:53:36 PM »

BBC News giving a running commentary on how many people have signed the petition. Over 1,300,000 now.

This means that over 60,000,000 have not signed it.

Shaker · « **Reply #231 on:** January 30, 2017, 05:58:54 PM »

Quote from: JP on January 30, 2017, 05:53:36 PM

BBC News giving a running commentary on how many people have signed the petition. Over 1,300,000 now.

This means that over 60,000,000 have not signed it.

.. which needless to say doesn't equate to 60,000,000 approving of a state visit. Obviously.

Walter · « **Reply #232 on:** January 30, 2017, 06:07:56 PM »

Quote from: JP on January 30, 2017, 05:53:36 PM

BBC News giving a running commentary on how many people have signed the petition. Over 1,300,000 now.

This means that over 60,000,000 have not signed it.

oh no we're all doomed , soon there will be a shortage of dummies and teddies and then there will be a petition about that.

SusanDoris · « **Reply #233 on:** January 30, 2017, 06:11:35 PM »

On the BBC Radio 4 news at lunchtime, Sir Malcolm Riffkind gave a very good assessment of the situation I thought.

JP · « **Reply #234 on:** January 30, 2017, 06:23:30 PM »

Quote from: Shaker on January 30, 2017, 05:58:54 PM

.. which needless to say doesn't equate to 60,000,000 approving of a state visit. Obviously.

Well I dunno. In this democratic new age where results don't matter when things don't go your way perhaps some lawyers can do a pro bono to try and redefine what a petition means. Not signing may mean you oppose it which in this case there is massive support for Trump to come. I mean, I want him to come but I have no way of getting it out to the nation other than to not sign it.

The Accountant, OBE, KC · « **Reply #235 on:** January 30, 2017, 06:40:24 PM »

Quote from: JP on January 30, 2017, 05:38:34 PM

The dazed, slack jawed, weeping, teddy bear clutching democrats who were waiting for Hilary to win did not suggest to me that they saw it coming. Unlike Micheal Moore they clearly did not see the writing on the wall even though it had been appearing for a long time. Probably due to an inability to see things through the eyes of another. Same as the stunned silence that followed the Brexit vote, same type of people did not see that coming either for the same reasons.

There is now momentum and Europe awaits the elections in The Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy.

Oh so you were just referring to the dazed, slack jawed etc, etc protesters who didn't see it coming. Not all the other non-dazed, non-slack jawed protesters who saw it coming when they heard all the brainless reasons why people supported Trump and who protested against it and continue to legitimately protest against Trump now he has been elected.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/trump-supporters-shown-identical-photos-of-hillary-clinton-guess-which-is-her-secret-double-a7324726.html%3Famp?client=safari

JP · « **Reply #236 on:** January 30, 2017, 06:44:39 PM »

So Gabriella, you are saying that the vast majority of Democrats expected Clinton to lose? They saw that coming so were not surprised.

Had a quick glance at the link. I believe it is about a thick Trump voter. Is that correct?

Shaker · « **Reply #237 on:** January 30, 2017, 07:07:57 PM »

Quote from: JP on January 30, 2017, 06:44:39 PM

Had a quick glance at the link. I believe it is about a thick Trump voter. Is that correct?

No need to repeat yourself

The Accountant, OBE, KC · « **Reply #238 on:** January 30, 2017, 07:10:41 PM »

It's about various Trump voters and their various reasons for supporting Trump. It was worrying in the run up to the election.

I have no stats to say what percentage of the people legitimately protesting saw it coming. If you have stats on that, be happy to see them.

Rhiannon · « **Reply #239 on:** January 30, 2017, 07:54:00 PM »

Quote from: wigginhall on January 30, 2017, 04:40:27 PM

I imagine that this will increase Islamist radicalization around the world, but then Trump will probably say, told you so.

I don't think it will have a huge effect. What it will do though - and this is just as if not far more damaging - is deter the brave and the just Muslims in places like Iraq and Syria who act as interpreters, pass on information and act as spies and infiltrators in order to aid US military action and intelligence - and by extension our own. Why take a risk if later when you need asylum it is denied to you with a stroke of a pen?

Rhiannon · « **Reply #240 on:** January 30, 2017, 07:56:03 PM »

Quote from: wigginhall on January 30, 2017, 04:20:35 PM

One of the strangest aspects of this ban is that people already living in the US may be affected. There are reports that Iranians who live in the US (about 1 million), dare not leave, as they may not be allowed back.

This seems both unjust and amateurish, and it's hard to believe that it will make the US safer.

Yes, amateurish is spot on. Injustices aside, it makes the US presidency a laughing stock.

wigginhall · « **Reply #241 on:** January 30, 2017, 08:11:40 PM »

Quote from: Rhiannon on January 30, 2017, 07:56:03 PM

Yes, amateurish is spot on. Injustices aside, it makes the US presidency a laughing stock.

I have an American friend whose husband is Iranian, with a green card, I think, living in SF. They are freaking out, not just because they daren't leave the country, but what's next?

They came for the Jews, and I did nothing ...

The Accountant, OBE, KC · « **Reply #242 on:** January 30, 2017, 08:40:21 PM »

Quote from: wigginhall on January 30, 2017, 08:11:40 PM

I have an American friend whose husband is Iranian, with a green card, I think, living in SF. They are freaking out, not just because they daren't leave the country, but what's next?

They came for the Jews, and I did nothing ...

Just heading back on the tube from Downing St protest. Took a photo of a banner that said "Jews standing withMuslims. We have seen this before and will not look away"

My homemade banner said "No to Trump. No to arms to Saudi" - made by my older daughter complete with fake splattered blood.

wigginhall · « **Reply #243 on:** January 30, 2017, 08:44:40 PM »

Quote from: Gabriella on January 30, 2017, 08:40:21 PM

Just heading back on the tube from Downing St protest. Took a photo of a banner that said "Jews standing withMuslims. We have seen this before and will not look away"

My homemade banner said "No to Trump. No to arms to Saudi" - made by my older daughter complete with fake splattered blood.

Well done. I saw an interview with Brunhilde Pomsel, Goebbel's secretary, and she said: "The people who today say they would have done more for those poor, persecuted Jews… I really believe that they sincerely mean it," she said in interviews for A German Life. "But they wouldn't have done it either."

ad_orientem · « **Reply #244 on:** January 30, 2017, 08:51:31 PM »

Zzzzz! I agree that countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey should be added to the list.

The Accountant, OBE, KC · « **Reply #245 on:** January 30, 2017, 09:10:19 PM »

Quote from: ad_orientem on January 30, 2017, 08:51:31 PM

Zzzzz! I agree that countries like Saudi Arabia and Turkey should be added to the list.

Clearly right-wing politicians like Trump are far too pragmatic to do that - cheered on by the Trump supporters. It seems terrorism by Saudis is simply the price you have to pay for your economy to function well .

SqueakyVoice · « **Reply #246 on:** January 31, 2017, 12:13:59 AM »

Quote from: Gabriella on January 30, 2017, 09:10:19 PM

Clearly right-wing politicians like Trump are far too pragmatic to do that - cheered on by the Trump supporters. It seems terrorism by Saudis is simply the price you have to pay for your economy to function well .

Or, its the price you have to pay for the Tiny-handed Orange Fool having business interests in Saudi Arabia (and Egypt and the UAE).

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956

SusanDoris · « **Reply #247 on:** January 31, 2017, 06:02:19 AM »

I hear this morning that he has already sacked his Attorney General (or whatever the title is) for disagreeing with his immigration order, also another of his appointees.

ad_orientem · « **Reply #248 on:** January 31, 2017, 06:50:54 AM »

He should have done it properly and ban all muslims.

The Accountant, OBE, KC · « **Reply #249 on:** January 31, 2017, 07:31:27 AM »

Why? How would that help? I fly to the US fairly often. I have Muslim friends who go there for work or to study or who live there and pay taxes. What would be the point of banning us? Or was there no logical thought behind that comment and you were just bored and wanted to get a reaction?

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Author Topic: President Elect Trump (Read 211711 times)

Rhiannon

Rhiannon