Author Topic: President Elect Trump  (Read 211881 times)

ProfessorDavey

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #250 on: January 31, 2017, 07:43:58 AM »
He should have done it properly and ban all muslims.
On what grounds?

And what about the millions of muslims already living and working in the US?

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #251 on: January 31, 2017, 08:41:42 AM »
He should have done it properly and ban all muslims.
And that's a sound, reasonable, proportionate policy of a rational individual, is it?

Still: makes a change from the Jews, I suppose.
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ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #252 on: January 31, 2017, 09:06:31 AM »
Why? How would that help?  I fly to the US fairly often. I have Muslim friends who go there for work or to study or who live there and pay taxes. What would be the point of banning us? Or was there no logical thought behind that comment and you were just bored and wanted to get a reaction?

It's what I reckon Europe should do. At the moment Europe's committing cultural and ethnic suicide. We should be doing qhat Trump is doing but better.
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Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #253 on: January 31, 2017, 09:13:46 AM »
So you're in favour of bigoted, divisive, unjust and lunatic policies, then.

Glad we cleared that one up.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #254 on: January 31, 2017, 09:18:14 AM »
'Supposed to be' - there's your answer.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #255 on: January 31, 2017, 09:22:23 AM »
So you're in favour of bigoted, divisive, unjust and lunatic policies, then.

Glad we cleared that one up.

What I want is for us to remain a distinct people. let's take Sweden as  an example. The rate Sweden is going there won't be any Swedes in an hundred years time. They will have been wiped out, except in a strict legal sense of course, but then a piece of paper means fuck all. What it is is genocide. Of course if we were talking about anyone other than Europeans you'd all be agreeing.
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ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #256 on: January 31, 2017, 09:23:31 AM »
What a sick comment, especially from one who is supposed to be religious! >:(

So you approve of genocide. Let's wipe out European people.
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Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #257 on: January 31, 2017, 09:25:08 AM »
Spot the poster who doesn't know what genocide means.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #258 on: January 31, 2017, 09:41:35 AM »
Spot the poster who doesn't know what genocide means.

I know what it means and it's exactly what is happening via a sort of reverse colonialism through mass immigration.
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Walter

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #259 on: January 31, 2017, 09:41:45 AM »
'Supposed to be' - there's your answer.
I totally agree with that sentiment ,however the greatest threat to human civilisation is not climate change , there is something else for more immediate and dangerous and the sooner more people pull the scales from their eyes the safer we will be .   

Harrowby Hall

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #260 on: January 31, 2017, 09:43:48 AM »
Come back, Adolf, all is forgiven?

Are there no lessons from history which should inform our lives?


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #261 on: January 31, 2017, 09:55:43 AM »
I know what it means and it's exactly what is happening via a sort of reverse colonialism through mass immigration.
Ah. So you don't know what it means after all.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #262 on: January 31, 2017, 09:57:56 AM »
Come back, Adolf, all is forgiven?

Are there no lessons from history which should inform our lives?

As I said, if it wasn't Europeans this was happening to you'd most likely be agreeing with me.
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Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #263 on: January 31, 2017, 09:59:07 AM »
I totally agree with that sentiment ,however the greatest threat to human civilisation is not climate change
Isn't it?
Quote
there is something else for more immediate and dangerous and the sooner more people pull the scales from their eyes the safer we will be .
Such as? If it's so immediate and dangerous why can't you say what it is without all the verbal asterisks?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Stranger

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #264 on: January 31, 2017, 09:59:32 AM »
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #265 on: January 31, 2017, 10:00:21 AM »
As I said, if it wasn't Europeans this was happening to you'd most likely be agreeing with me.
Why's that?

Because you assume that everybody else is a racist asshat as well?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #266 on: January 31, 2017, 10:01:30 AM »
It's what I reckon Europe should do. At the moment Europe's committing cultural and ethnic suicide. We should be doing qhat Trump is doing but better.
Why do you think banning Muslims will help Europe? When have there ever been simplistic solutions to complex social problems?

Many countries in Europe face the costs of an aging population - they need immigrants to pay taxes and do the jobs that need doing so that the country does not grind to a halt. That is the reality that economists, businesses and certain European leaders have had to face.

Not much you can do about ethnic changes to the population, unless you can persuade ethnically European women to become baby machines for you to create the workers and tax payers that Europe needs. But increasingly you see mixed-race relationships, so I think you can't turn the clock back.

If you are worried about cultural suicide, given you need workers and tax payers, your best bet is to promote policies that tackle criminal behaviour, preferably without the huge costs of running more prisons, and promote policies of integration into whatever the culture is in the area. That way you don't end up with crippling social and healthcare costs because of the aging population and not enough workers, but you do continue to maintain some of your cultural heritage despite the increasing need for immigrants. One problem for you is that individualism is part of the culture in Europe - each person free to express their identity and associating in groups of like-minded people so long as they are not engaging in criminal behaviour - which is why you end up with so many mosques and halal shops as the majority of Muslims peacefully go about their lives, work, pay taxes etc.

Do you want to change European culture to discourage individualism? Individualism tends to lead to innovation and entrepreneurship - new ideas to boost the economy. Do you think the majority opinion in Europe is that it is better to discourage individualism and go back to more social control and conformity?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 10:04:16 AM by Gabriella »
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Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #267 on: January 31, 2017, 10:05:36 AM »
When have there ever been simplistic solutions to complex social problems?
Ever since stupid and/or fearful people, who don't like or just can't think complicated things about complicated issues.
Quote
Not much you can do about ethnic changes to the population, unless you can persuade ethnically European women to become baby machines for you to create the workers and tax payers that Europe needs.
I'm sure he'd be absolutely delighted with that.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #268 on: January 31, 2017, 10:14:48 AM »
I think that what scares Christians is the fact the they are losing adherents across Europe while Islam is growing, partly due to migration, but also a higher birth rate and there are European converts also. It won't be long before Islam is the majority faith in many European countries, and Christianity will no longer be able to claim its privileged status.

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #269 on: January 31, 2017, 10:24:59 AM »
I think that what scares Christians is the fact the they are losing adherents across Europe while Islam is growing, partly due to migration, but also a higher birth rate and there are European converts also. It won't be long before Islam is the majority faith in many European countries, and Christianity will no longer be able to claim its privileged status.
I'd have thought that in England specifically that's already the case and we have the stats to prove it.

Not that those with privilege ever give it up easily, of course.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #270 on: January 31, 2017, 10:26:28 AM »
I think that what scares Christians is the fact the they are losing adherents across Europe while Islam is growing, partly due to migration, but also a higher birth rate and there are European converts also. It won't be long before Islam is the majority faith in many European countries, and Christianity will no longer be able to claim its privileged status.
the last figures I saw on projections up to 2030 don't bear out that many European countries will have Islam as the majority faith, are there some new extrapolations?

Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #271 on: January 31, 2017, 10:27:45 AM »
I'd have thought that in England specifically that's already the case and we have the stats to prove it.

Not that those with privilege ever give it up easily, of course.
we have the stats to prove that England has Islam as its largest religion?

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #272 on: January 31, 2017, 10:28:42 AM »
I think there is a very skewed narrative presented by the media on this. They focus on the dopey, Trump-supporting type converts to Islam who are also looking for simplistic solutions to complex problems - hence they do stupid things like get brainwashed by ISIS or retreat behind a burka - but the media do not shine a spotlight on the other types of Muslims. There is a huge amount of diversity that just gets ignored - and I don't just mean the Muslims who are atheists, or the Muslims who are gay, but the huge amount of individualism amongst ordinary Muslims.

Ad-O's problem seems to be a problem with individualism and a lack of social conformity - he should therefore persuade politicians to figure out solutions to that rather than shoot himself and his fellow-Europeans in the foot by depriving the economy of a much-needed workforce.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Shaker

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #273 on: January 31, 2017, 10:30:09 AM »
we have the stats to prove that England has Islam as its largest religion?
No no no, I didn't mean that - I meant that Christianity is a minority religion, so given that, how much longer can the C of E trade on past glories and continue to insist that it ought to keep its privileged position by being the established state church?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ad_orientem

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #274 on: January 31, 2017, 10:40:23 AM »
Why do you think banning Muslims will help Europe? When have there ever been simplistic solutions to complex social problems?

Many countries in Europe face the costs of an aging population - they need immigrants to pay taxes and do the jobs that need doing so that the country does not grind to a halt. That is the reality that economists, businesses and certain European leaders have had to face.

Not much you can do about ethnic changes to the population, unless you can persuade ethnically European women to become baby machines for you to create the workers and tax payers that Europe needs. But increasingly you see mixed-race relationships, so I think you can't turn the clock back.

If you are worried about cultural suicide, given you need workers and tax payers, your best bet is to promote policies that tackle criminal behaviour, preferably without the huge costs of running more prisons, and promote policies of integration into whatever the culture is in the area. That way you don't end up with crippling social and healthcare costs because of the aging population and not enough workers, but you do continue to maintain some of your cultural heritage despite the increasing need for immigrants. One problem for you is that individualism is part of the culture in Europe - each person free to express their identity and associating in groups of like-minded people so long as they are not engaging in criminal behaviour - which is why you end up with so many mosques and halal shops as the majority of Muslims peacefully go about their lives, work, pay taxes etc.

Do you want to change European culture to discourage individualism? Individualism tends to lead to innovation and entrepreneurship - new ideas to boost the economy. Do you think the majority opinion in Europe is that it is better to discourage individualism and go back to more social control and conformity?

It's a myth that we need mass immigration. All it is is a means by which large corporations get workers who will work for peanuts. What needs to be done is to give more incentives to have children.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.