President Elect Trump

[Jack Knave]

Back to the baby machines, exactly as Gabriella predicted.

So 7 billion people isn't enough. Planet Earth is straining under our abuse as it is!!!

[Shaker]

So 7 billion people isn't enough. Planet Earth is straining under our abuse as it is!!!

I'm not agreeing with it - I'm using Gabriella's view of Ad_o's opinions against him.

[ad_orientem]

That's a romantic notion - land of our forefathers etc - but does your country not have an ageing population that needs young tax paying workers to support them or a skills shortage or competition from cheap foreign goods? Given people are freely choosing to have kids later in life because they don't want the responsibility or having fewer kids, European leaders need an alternative policy to forcing ethnically European people to have more children and training them up to plug the gap - it's either immigrants or robots. I assume immigrants seemed a more feasible and cost-effective option.

What's your alternative proposal to immigrants and how do you propose to make it work and fund it?

You give incentives to have children.

[SusanDoris]

How do you encourage those who choose benefits rather than wages to work? I realise that some of the difficulties are costs of travelling to work which is not near enough for short bus ride, etc; lack of public transport at places and times required; lack of a sort of automatic work ethic; nowhere near enough value given to jobs which do not need a university degree; and of course home backgrounds all too often provide a bad example;  can't think of any more at the moment. But there are many people in this country who will not take, or turn down, the jobs that immigrants will do.

[ProfessorDavey]

You give incentives to have children.

So people have children to get the money.

Hmm - not sure that is really the way to ensure that every child is wanted and loved.

[Bubbles]

Presumably this state visit will have to be honoured now Theresa May has invited him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38805196

[Outrider]

How do you encourage those who choose benefits rather than wages to work? I realise that some of the difficulties are costs of travelling to work which is not near enough for short bus ride, etc; lack of public transport at places and times required; lack of a sort of automatic work ethic; nowhere near enough value given to jobs which do not need a university degree; and of course home backgrounds all too often provide a bad example;  can't think of any more at the moment. But there are many people in this country who will not take, or turn down, the jobs that immigrants will do.

For the numbers of them that there are, why worry about it? Why not worry more about how do you make sure that the wealthy and the corporations pay their share so that we don't have to worry about the very few who don't have a work ethic?

O.

[SusanDoris]

For the numbers of them that there are, why worry about it? Why not worry more about how do you make sure that the wealthy and the corporations pay their share so that we don't have to worry about the very few who don't have a work ethic?

O.

Because some, maybe many, people seem to think there are too many immigrants, not realising they will do the jobs that British workers won't.

[Nearly Sane]

One possible take


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5

[wigginhall]

Because some, maybe many, people seem to think there are too many immigrants, not realising they will do the jobs that British workers won't.

Isn't it also that immigration boosts the economy, thus providing more jobs?   I was watching a film about Oldham recently, which talked about an influx of immigrants, and then mentioned rather quietly at the end, that unemployment had been going down.  Of course, it might not be cause/effect. 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

You give incentives to have children.

Simplistic answer, doesn't fix the problem now, and takes at least 18 years to produce a tax-paying worker. What are these incentives and more importantly, how do you fund these incentives? If you don't know, then what makes you think it can be done? Which is probably why the government went for the immigrant option, which definitely does work in terms of boosting the economy and generating tax revenue. 

Raising a child to adulthood in increasingly urbanised societies, and helping them buy their own home is a huge cost - far more than any government could afford in terms of incentives. Having a child is a huge open-ended responsibility as there is no guarantee that they will become a productive worker, will have the skills to get a job or will even want to do the jobs where there is a shortage, and will not have any health issues that prevent them from working.

Also parenting usually results in the mother's earnings being reduced from what it probably would have been if she had not had the child, since she would either have to take time away from her job to care for the child either by reducing her hours or staying at home for a few years. So the government would have to provide enough money to compensate for lost earnings, a bigger house, nursery, education, clothing, food, not to mention the risk that she might end up a single parent etc 

People are more likely to have more than one or 2 kids if they sense there is an expanding economy in which they think their children have a chance of a better life and there is good family/ community support to help care for and nurture the child to become a productive adult. Potential parents are usually motivated by access to affordable childcare and good education, access to affordable housing, cheap mortgages. This is not a description of the economy we currently live in, whereas immigrants do boost the economy now - immigrants mean more people working, spending money in the economy, paying taxes, providing resources to pay for the ageing population. 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

One possible take


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5

Yes - worrying if it is the case that Trump is establishing a kleptocracy to funnel money to his businesses and his administration is ignoring court judgments - Michael Moore also thinks there is a coup taking place in the US.

[wigginhall]

I suspect that one reason Trump didn't go for a total Muslim ban, was that it could have unforeseen consequences in terms of the economy and of course political relations.  He has picked 7 relatively poor countries, but if he had included the Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, and Indonesia, who knows what would ensue?  All kinds of retaliations, sanctions, trade war?  He has enough rationality to realize this (well, I am guessing really).

[Bubbles]

I suspect that one reason Trump didn't go for a total Muslim ban, was that it could have unforeseen consequences in terms of the economy and of course political relations.  He has picked 7 relatively poor countries, but if he had included the Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, and Indonesia, who knows what would ensue?  All kinds of retaliations, sanctions, trade war?  He has enough rationality to realize this (well, I am guessing really).

I saw one criticism was that he didn't pick Saudi Arabia because it would hurt his own investments, that the countries he chose didn't put him at a disadvantage, business wise.

How true that is I'm not sure.

[Nearly Sane]

I think a coup in America isn't beyond the bounds of possibility if Trump presses ahead with some of his extremist measures, like trying to ban abortion and gay marriage.

Those aren't his stated positions.

[Bubbles]

There is a report on it here, by the independant

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-majority-countries-donald-trump-travel-ban-immigration-entry-visa-three-main-countries-exempt-a7552526.html

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

For the numbers of them that there are, why worry about it? Why not worry more about how do you make sure that the wealthy and the corporations pay their share so that we don't have to worry about the very few who don't have a work ethic?

O.

Business-owners, CEOs, top management are each earning hundreds of times more than the average employee who works in their firm. As these people are also responsible for deciding the salaries everyone earns, no surprise that the divide between rich and poor is just getting bigger and bigger.

All the more irrational that voters would elect Trump to sort out the inequality divide - a person who pays himself huge amounts of money from his businesses, files for bankruptcy to avoid paying workers and suppliers and is not transparent about the tax he pays. All because he said he would ban Muslims and Mexicans.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I suspect that one reason Trump didn't go for a total Muslim ban, was that it could have unforeseen consequences in terms of the economy and of course political relations.  He has picked 7 relatively poor countries, but if he had included the Saudis, Egypt, Turkey, and Indonesia, who knows what would ensue?  All kinds of retaliations, sanctions, trade war?  He has enough rationality to realize this (well, I am guessing really).

Yes - the Saudis for example spend a lot of money - no doubt enough of that finds its way to Trump's businesses interests in the Middle East and the US for Trump to ignore Saudi Muslims who fund terrorism against US, UK, and European citizens, not to mention the victims in the developing countries throughout the world.

[wigginhall]

Business-owners, CEOs, top management are each earning hundreds of times more than the average employee who works in their firm. As these people are also responsible for deciding the salaries everyone earns, no surprise that the divide between rich and poor is just getting bigger and bigger.

All the more irrational that voters would elect Trump to sort out the inequality divide - a person who pays himself huge amounts of money from his businesses, files for bankruptcy to avoid paying workers and suppliers and is not transparent about the tax he pays. All because he said he would ban Muslims and Mexicans.

Disraeli called them angels in marble, that is, poor people who vote for right-wing governments.   The Tory party has relied on them often.   I suppose there is an argument a bit like 'trickle-down', that such govts produce wealth, which helps the poor. 

But in the US, you also have issues such as abortion, which cut across economic issues.   Thus, many evangelicals voted Trump, plus gun-owners, plus root-tootin' good ole boys, who don't like gumment. 

[Nearly Sane]

The view from Kilmarnock


http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/88778653/scathing-donald-trump-poem-wins-new-zealand-competition

[Nearly Sane]

Possibly kite flying but what a kite!



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-executive-order-christian-pre-marital-sex-same-sex-marriage-abortion-wrong-religious-a7558691.html

[Shaker]

What happened to equal marriage being "a settled matter," Mr President?

http://tinyurl.com/hm4xgvt

[SusanDoris]

How much hope is there, do you think, that this will not be one of his signed EOs?

[wigginhall]

You have to watch out for fake news now, as there is a lot of it about, in relation to Trump.   It does sound like Pence, of course.

[Rhiannon]

You have to watch out for fake news now, as there is a lot of it about, in relation to Trump.   It does sound like Pence, of course.

My thoughts exactly. It's the trade off for him giving the green light to Trump's own self interested projects, or turning a blind eye to them.