President Elect Trump

[Sassy]

But you can't have it both ways:

The Breixt vote provided a 4% winning margin in the popular vote for leave, the US presidential election provided a 4% margin in the popular vote for Clinton.

Silly and not productive to use two different systems and try and compare them.

In both cases Clinton lost, Trump won.  In Brexit the exits won.
You know that you cannot twist what is accepted as the way in both countries for a win.

So equating the two is deeply muddled thinking.

But you were equating the two not I.  Trump won the American way. The Brexit votes won the UK way.
So no point on those moaning about it, is there?

But there is a further point - that in a democratic society you are required to roll over if a vote goes against you, simply shut up and stop opposing. Quite the reverse, it is perfectly acceptable in a democratic society to continue to disagree with the policies of the winner even after then won. That was most oppositions do, and in a proper democratic system they will get an opportunity, un due course to overturn that result if they win the argument. So in the US presidential election that opportunity will come in 2020, in the case of Brexit it will come in ... err - hmm.

It will come when they have exhausted all channels of trying to stop it. Because any system which does not allow the outcome falls into chaos.

[Harrowby Hall]

Sassy.

Why I should bother replying to your ill-informed and confused posts I do not really know. It is clear that you have little understanding of the American electoral system nor of the political objectives of Donald Trump nor of the philosophies of the dominant political parties.

Take the electoral system: the Electoral College is broken, it does not reflect the national population. It gives the voters in small states greater power than those in large states. In Wyoming each Electoral College vote required 81,000 votes, in California each EC vote required 254,000. So an individual vote in Wyoming was about three times as effective as a vote in California.

Your post is full of bleeding heart rubbish about the poor and homeless. The Democrats have a consistently more favourable attitude towards welfare and the well-being of less-well-off Americans than the Republicans. One of Trump's main promises was to abolish "Obamacare".  In the USA health care is a private enterprise activity. The largest single cause of bankruptcy is the cost of health care. The Obama plan was to put a small levy on health insurance premiums so that a surplus of funds would be available to provide health care for those who could not afford health insurance. The potentially benefited millions of poorer Americans.

Trump's argument was that middle class people who were relatively well-off should not be supporting poorer people who could not afford the premiums. The poor and homeless should not be subsidised by better-off people. If they could not afford the premiums it was their own fault. The Trump approach abandons the poor and homeless. You appear to approve of this.

[Nearly Sane]

Lock him up?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38965557

Well he certainly thinks so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFBAjhxjQ90

[ProfessorDavey]

Because any system which does not allow the outcome falls into chaos.

Any system which fails to allow those who have lost an election to continue to campaign for their beliefs quickly descends into authoritarianism and rapidly fails to be democratic.

[Jack Knave]

Any system which fails to allow those who have lost an election to continue to campaign for their beliefs quickly descends into authoritarianism and rapidly fails to be democratic.

But it is sad that many of them turnout to be sore losers and whingers!!!

[Sassy]

Sassy.

Why I should bother replying to your ill-informed and confused posts I do not really know. It is clear that you have little understanding of the American electoral system nor of the political objectives of Donald Trump nor of the philosophies of the dominant political parties.

Ill-informed??? Confused?  Surely you realise your reply is based on your opinions of Trump and nothing to do any factual evidence?
 

Take the electoral system: the Electoral College is broken, it does not reflect the national population. It gives the voters in small states greater power than those in large states. In Wyoming each Electoral College vote required 81,000 votes, in California each EC vote required 254,000. So an individual vote in Wyoming was about three times as effective as a vote in California.

So are you saying the Electoral College did not vote Trump in? What are you saying because the above does NOT make Trump being president null or void. DO you really have a point?

Your post is full of bleeding heart rubbish about the poor and homeless.

So you believe children being homeless is a bleeding heart rubbish?  What is it, does the truth hurt you that you would deride such heartless truths?

The Democrats have a consistently more favourable attitude towards welfare and the well-being of less-well-off Americans than the Republicans. One of Trump's main promises was to abolish "Obamacare".

The health care payments went up by 300% making any care unaffordable for most people under Obama. Had you been following you would know Christians set up a way of everyone paying what they can afford and all chipping the money to make care affordable for others as they required it.  Mind you this is the Americans tell us this. Do you live in America or pay for health care?

  In the USA health care is a private enterprise activity.

I am well aware of the above as my last post shows. I also know how the health care have soared in America.
Like I know they wanted to implement such things here. And no payment no treatment.

The largest single cause of bankruptcy is the cost of health care. The Obama plan was to put a small levy on health insurance premiums so that a surplus of funds would be available to provide health care for those who could not afford health insurance. The potentially benefited millions of poorer Americans.

Instead it went up 300% so a family paying $500 per month were suddenly asked for $1500 per month. You seem to think you are on top of the reality but clearly you are not.

Trump's argument was that middle class people who were relatively well-off should not be supporting poorer people who could not afford the premiums. The poor and homeless should not be subsidised by better-off people. If they could not afford the premiums it was their own fault. The Trump approach abandons the poor and homeless. You appear to approve of this.

It wasn't just the poorer people who could not afford medical costs the truth was even those you thought middle class could not afford it either. But new ideas came in which made it affordable through Christians. But Obama didn't make anything better as far as health care he made it worse.

[Sassy]

Any system which fails to allow those who have lost an election to continue to campaign for their beliefs quickly descends into authoritarianism and rapidly fails to be democratic.

Anyone who goes against the democratic vote has no right to campaign anything. Sore losers are not excusable for their bad behaviour.

[Quizzimodo]

Anyone who goes against the democratic vote has no right to campaign anything. Sore losers are not excusable for their bad behaviour.

Sooo how do think MPs should have voted in the Commons Brexit vote last week:

1. With their own conciences?
2. As the majority in their constituency voted?
3. Pro-Brexit as that's what the majority voted for?

[Aruntraveller]

But new ideas came in which made it affordable through Christians.

Really?

Christians cut the cost of healthcare?

Roll up roll up get your jar of Dr. Truth's medicine here?

Encourages not only fake news but completely made up stories - in five volumes with gold-edged pages, especially embossed with "Christ can save you money - pay your deposit now."

I'm reminded of lyrics from an old song, Sassy are you Sister Fatima?

I'm a servant of fate in this garden of truth,
 A humble recruit of the taffeta booth
 Where all things are known, but few are revealed.
 Where sins are forgotten, and sickness is healed,
 For five dollars.
 The flower is free.

[ad_orientem]

Take the electoral system: the Electoral College is broken, it does not reflect the national population. It gives the voters in small states greater power than those in large states. In Wyoming each Electoral College vote required 81,000 votes, in California each EC vote required 254,000. So an individual vote in Wyoming was about three times as effective as a vote in California.

The US is a federation which is why they have the electoral college system, so that small states can still have a voice unlike, say, the EU where small countries have to just have to go along with what the big countries want even when it's against their own interests.

[Aruntraveller]

The US is a federation which is why they have the electoral college system, so that small states can still have a voice unlike, say, the EU where small countries have to just have to go along with what the big countries want even when it's against their own interests.

So you approve of a system where a person's vote in one state carries 3 times as much weight as a persons vote in another state?

Wow. Just wow.

[Nearly Sane]

So you approve of a system where a person's vote in one state carries 3 times as much weight as a persons vote in another state?

Wow. Just wow.

Just to note that the system for MEPs is similar



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_Parliament

[Rhiannon]

And I don't recall being asked to choose between Junker and someone else.

[ad_orientem]

So you approve of a system where a person's vote in one state carries 3 times as much weight as a persons vote in another state?

Wow. Just wow.

Yes, I approve because it's fair.

[ProfessorDavey]

Yes, I approve because it's fair.

In what way is it fair that certain individual votes are worth far more than others in determining the outcome of an election?

[ad_orientem]

In what way is it fair that certain individual votes are worth far more than others in determining the outcome of an election?

The electoral college system gives each state an equal voice. That's why it's fair.

[Nearly Sane]

The electoral college system gives each state an equal voice. That's why it's fair.

No, it doesn't, since that would mean the same number of votes.

[ad_orientem]

No, it doesn't, since that would mean the same number of votes.

Eh?

[Nearly Sane]

Eh?

In the electoral college. It doesn't. States are neither treated as equal in terms of electoral college votes, nor in the worth of individual voters.

[Jack Knave]

And I don't recall being asked to choose between Junker and someone else.

In the EU you don't count, you're lower than a pawn. They treat their dogs better than they would treat you.

[Aruntraveller]

In the EU you don't count, you're lower than a pawn. They treat their dogs better than they would treat you.

Yeah really hard bastards what with their lower mobile phone charges and clean beaches.

[Jack Knave]

Yeah really hard bastards what with their lower mobile phone charges and clean beaches.

Ask the Greeks about how lovely the EU and Troika are, and the way they have trashed Greece - some are in such despair they are committing suicide. They have a debt to GDP of about 280%. The accepted critical point for this is 90% yet the EU/ECB want to pile more debt on the Greeks so they can bailout the banks, saving those cunts from having to take responsibility for their immoral and criminal activities in their derivatives and the like. The last Greek bailout of about €65 billion went straight onto the Greek books and straight out again to the banks. Not a penny went to the Greeks.  All in name of the political project of the EU - an action that would have been perfectly congruous with the processes of the USSR.

[Sassy]

Sooo how do think MPs should have voted in the Commons Brexit vote last week:

1. With their own conciences?
2. As the majority in their constituency voted?
3. Pro-Brexit as that's what the majority voted for?

Brexit has already been decided by the peoples vote.

So any MP representing the Countries system should have photed for the Brexit.

[Sassy]

Really?

Christians cut the cost of healthcare?

Roll up roll up get your jar of Dr. Truth's medicine here?

Encourages not only fake news but completely made up stories - in five volumes with gold-edged pages, especially embossed with "Christ can save you money - pay your deposit now."

I'm reminded of lyrics from an old song, Sassy are you Sister Fatima?

You need to do your homework before you make uninformed opinions public.


https://www.chministries.org

Seems you just don't like the truth.... dislike it so much you make false accusations.

[ProfessorDavey]

You need to do your homework before you make uninformed opinions public.


https://www.chministries.org

Seems you just don't like the truth.... dislike it so much you make false accusations.

Hmm - seems a touch derivation, from a far better and universal scheme - it is called the tax and welfare system. Guess what civilised social democratic countries have been doing for decades. And those countries that seem to have it nailed best are the Scandinavian countries, which are characterised by being routinely ranked the best for quality of life and also have some of the highest proportions of atheists and non religious by choice on the planet.