Author Topic: President Elect Trump  (Read 211589 times)

Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #575 on: May 11, 2017, 08:23:51 AM »
Does that apply to people like Hitler, pol pot, and other unpleasant people in power? Do you support them as well?

Rose,

Why does evil exist in the world?

Because man exists.

But whatever we believe evil cannot exist without men committing evil.

You have God wanting man to be saved.

The Jews believed that their Messiah would not come until the people of the world were truly evil or truly good.

The arguments about Trump or anyone in power has to work to the greater evil or the greater good.
If Trump is for the greater good in an evil world what is the arguments and attacks about if not?

It isn't about support.. I never voted any of the people you mention into power.
What is Trump to do with anyone here? None of us had a say and none of us had a say in the people you mentioned.
But in history like with Hitler is was Christian Nations who went in to stop the evil.

Whilst you lack any faith in a great power, Rose.  The lesser evils need to be in power to stop the people as you mentioned above. Winston Churchill, was a Christian. He even was known to have said words to the effect:- " Until, I came to lead the Nation during the word, all I had learned did not really make sense."  In other words all the studying he did and the way his life went was not understood till God brought him to power during the War. Then he understood why he had learned everything he had. What the purpose of it, was for.

I do believe that everything happens for a reason. God in the case of my faith works everything through to the good of man.
I feel the fact man has not destroyed himself or the earth yet is a sign a higher power is watching over us.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #576 on: May 11, 2017, 08:28:20 AM »
Apparently in the USA it's a big issue, anyone who wants to get on in politics has to pay lip service to Christianity, atheists don't get taken seriously.

I don't believe that is true.
It is has been for years that Politicians have got on by using causes like the homosexual rights  and abortion rights.
Now men have turned to God in the USA they are now jumping on that band wagon. Any cause to get into power.
But so far Trump has really tried hard against difficult odds to implement his promises.
Those few who do not want to let go in places of power are abusing that power to try and stop him.
They are not following the wishes of the people or their own ways which voted and got him into power.

If a country divides it will certainly fall. But it won't be Trumps fault but the people who went against the rights of the people and
Trump as President to act as he was empowered to do so.




We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #577 on: May 11, 2017, 09:21:59 AM »
Trouble is your post kind of answers why Christians in Germany in ww2 could support Hitler and gaily wave the Jews into gas ovens.

It was all ordained by God, and no one should point out the negative side of it all.

After all Hitler had the same aims, make Germany a great nation, just like Donald Trump wants to make America great again.

If god did have a purpose Sassy, maybe it's to sort those who blindly follow someone like Hitler, instead of objecting to the things they do and evil traits they have.

A lot of Christians over there (USA)  seem to have fallen off the narrow path, into the precipice.

Believing Trump or any leader is beyond criticism because they are God ordained is horrific imo.

https://pjmedia.com/faith/2017/02/16/pat-robertson-opposing-trump-is-revolting-against-what-gods-plan-is-for-america/

Not surprisingly the wolves in sheeps clothing support this idea.

That tells me all I need to know.

No one should be above criticism, especially those who are in control of others.

It's how atrocities happen, people don't question.

How Donald Trump behaves to those beneath him, matters.

How he behaves when he thinks he can't be held accountable, matters.

It's those things that matter.

It's what shapes a persons integrity.

Unfortunately many Christians who support him don't know what integrity is.

Unfortunately, that view is not based on anything but personal opinion due to you being an atheist.
That last sentence of mine is the truth.
Because as the post before this shows. In your own human mind the only evil in the world can be HUMAN caused.
But the fact remains that all democratic countries have put laws and rules in place for the governing of the Country.
USA are not keeping their own laws and rules when it comes to the President elected or his power to then run the country.

God knows the end from the beginning.  As you lack knowledge of God you lack the understanding to see God being in all places in all times at the same time.
A day and a thousand years the same for him.
So the book of life written before the world began because God has seen everything from beginning to end before it began.
He knew what and who would vote Trump in, as he knew people would put Hitler in power.
ALL THESE ARE HUMAN DOINGS. God just ensures the greater good comes out for the world.

Hitlers aim was to take the English Woman and the German man and make the greatest nation on earth.
Anything else was surplus to requirements. The Pope could have stopped Hitler at any time.
As a Roman Catholic the Church saw themselves as becoming the ONLY religion on the planet through Hitler.

Did they know the reality of what Hitler was doing before the war ended?

Where was the worlds integrity when they allowed Hitler to do these things?
Where was our own Countries integrity when:-


   
Quote
1938: 'Peace for our time' - Chamberlain
The British Prime Minister has been hailed as bringing "peace to Europe" after signing a non-aggression pact with Germany.


Sometimes, we have to realise human beings are out for themselves. That the evil exists because nations including our own allow it. What would have Hitler gone on to do had God not raised up men to oppose him?
You may never have been born. God sees everything and he raises up men who know him like Winston Churchill who stop those men who do evil to others and stop it being far worse.

What you don't see is the fact that Christians rise up to stop the greater evil not to enforce it.
Why do you think Hitler killed so many Jews? When it comes to Satan, you are already his. The Jews are not they have a Covenant and the Roman Catholics think that they are alone the people of God, a branch who ignore they are not and never will be the root. Satan hit's out where people like yourself will fail to recognise the truth.

The Jews harmed because they are Gods people. Hitler thought, however misguided - that they were an affront to God rejecting their Messiah. But in reality Hitler did not love God or his Neighbour.  The word 'Integrity'the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
the state of being whole and undivided.
the condition of being unified or sound in construction.

The moral integrity of a Christian has no part in the things happening in the USA.
There is no moral integrity where they try and stop the people and the system which put Trump in power to do what he was elected to do.

It isn't about morality and integrity. We know people with integrity allow the man in power to do what he was voted in to do and allow the way he was voted in, their own way, to run it's course.

Christians are not to blame for for Trump getting into power. Previous presidents are and those in power who sold them out for the dollar.  You see the truth is the USA got fed up of terrorist attacks on their own soil where their own country have funded the actual acts of terrorism. They got fed up of being told they have to accept something to be right they felt morally wrong.
The government used band wagons in all elections to get in.

Our OWN Country blames the depleated resources on the poor in our nation.
Unemployed, disabled, sick and not the reality. A lot unemployed because of lack of jobs and those which are available being
filled by immigrants or those who came in from the EU.
The disabled -disabled  due to many reasons, a lot from industrial through work they did in life.
One man I know dying due to working in the building trade and being in contact with aspestos.
The sick who are terminally ill being taken of benefits weeks before they die being told they are fit for work.
So all the good atheist rich people vote in Conservative and they make the above possible. Christians also vote
conservative who have no idea what love your neighbour means when it comes to their true false god their MONEY.

We need to sort out own Country out before attempting to sort the USA.

Our money went into paying for mistakes the Government made in investments.
It went into paying billions into the EU to bail out Countries whose economy could not compete with the richer countries.
It paid the  over paid members of Parliament wages. Our Country is a laughing stock because it starves and kills it's own people whilst handing over large sums of money to foreigners.

I bet you did not know that people who come here are getting £2,000 hand outs to get a car and look for work.
My friend a full time carer like myself had been called into the job centre for a back to work interview. I kid you not.
A Gentleman pointing down at a payment was saying, ?" Not enough, I need more money cannot buy a car for £2,000.
What in the world is our government doing handing out such cash amounts to foreigners and leaving our people who
are terminally ill to die in poverty having removed their benefits?

I believe they are giving 'illegal immigrant' £2,000 in cash to leave as well. :o

Seems our Government leaves their own people to die and hands the cash out to foreigners.
Our own house needs cleaning before we clean America. Because what they do to the poor in our own Country
is really immoral and it shows no integrity at all.

Why are you not moaning and complaining about the wrongs done here?





We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #578 on: May 11, 2017, 10:21:13 AM »
This thread isn't about Christians though, it's about Trump. I still don't know what religious beliefs Trump holds if he has any but anyway that isn't relevant, he'is leader of a country with many faiths.
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Gordon

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #579 on: May 11, 2017, 10:26:15 AM »
Moderator:

I've removed a couple of posts (by Sass and Floo) which were focused on religion. While religion is an aspect of US politics the emphasis in this thread should be on the politics element.
 

Aruntraveller

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #580 on: May 11, 2017, 10:38:42 AM »
Quote
But it won't be Trumps fault but the people who went against the rights of the people and
Trump as President to act as he was empowered to do so.


you do realize what nonsense you are spouting here don't you?

You are essentially saying that you cannot oppose anybody elected.

If May and the tories are elected in June 2017 and they, as is rumoured, try to allow hunting with dogs - you expect people to say OK you are empowered to do so - go right ahead. It's all fine and dandy because you have been elected.

What you are suggesting is the complete suppression of any opposition to governments in power.

I have to ask are your middle names Joseph Vissarionovich perchance?
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #581 on: May 12, 2017, 07:40:14 AM »
I'm not an atheist, Sassy. You are not judging correctly, other options are available.

Do you normally go round telling people they belong to Satan? Just because they don't see the world the way you do?

 :o

You defend people with bad fruits, Sassy.

Perhaps you need to practice that discernment that Christians go on about.

Your beliefs are leading you to some bizarre ideas which leads you to defend those that need to be accountable.

Like Donald Trump.

Plus Sassy it wasn't Christian countries vs Hitler in Ww2.

Germany was a very Christian country, a lot of the hatred aimed at Jews was generated by Christian beliefs. They were called Christ killers.

Winston Churchill did believe in a greater power, but his family was concerned he might become a Muslim

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11314580/Sir-Winston-Churchill-s-family-feared-he-might-convert-to-Islam.html

I don't think he saw things the same way as you.
I think you have assumed he shared your beliefs, well unless you have a very high regard for Islam and Muslims,  he didn't. 





« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:01:54 AM by Rose »

Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #582 on: May 12, 2017, 08:58:43 AM »
You couldn't make it up could you floo?

Sass the person your friend saw in Jobcentre saying he needed two thou for car, for all we know he needs a car for work. Many do jobs where a car is essential, going from place to place, carrying stuff. He woudn't have been expecting the Benefit people to hand him the money, was just explaining his position. Nothing to do with 'foreigners' surely. Remarks must always be quoted in context,on their own they can give the wrong impression.

Also can't understand why you thought Rose was an atheist, she's said nothing to indicate that.

(Quote from: Robinson on May 09, 2017, 04:48:41 PM
I didn't know Donald Trump was a believer.

Rose-"Apparently in the USA it's a big issue, anyone who wants to get on in politics has to pay lip service to Christianity, atheists don't get taken seriously."

I meant to reply to you before Rose; yes I know that but it seems such a silly thing when America has so many faiths.
I'm glad here we don't care about the religious beliefs of politicians.)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:23:59 AM by Robinson »
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Bubbles

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Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #584 on: May 13, 2017, 10:18:37 AM »
I'm not an atheist, Sassy. You are not judging correctly, other options are available.

Do you normally go round telling people they belong to Satan? Just because they don't see the world the way you do?

 :o

You defend people with bad fruits, Sassy.

Why write something you know is not true?

But Christ did say:

John 8:44-45King James Version (KJV)

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.


I judge no one and I can see the bigger picture regarding God and Trump.
If, you had faith and knew God you would be able to see the bigger picture too.
Note the divide that Trump being in power is causing.
We see the sheep and the goat being divided. We see a country who speaks a loud of how great it is, and it's constitution.
Trouble is, it is all talk. Their constitution is like the paper it is written on. Only works when the people believe and act in accordance with the declarations. Right now it is showing they do not believe in it.





Quote
Perhaps you need to practice that discernment that Christians go on about.

I know the value of the things happening at present. What you mean is like all the other Americans in America against Trump.
You only believe in something like democracy whilst it is in your way of thinking and favour. Same with religions you
only subscribe to a point of view if acceptable to your personal beliefs. TRUTH does not work according to the individuals wants or reasoning. Trust me, in these situations ONLY GOD knows what is the best way forward.

Quote
Your beliefs are leading you to some bizarre ideas which leads you to defend those that need to be accountable.

Wrong:  My beliefs lead me to the correct reasoning that Americans and people like yourself, only believe in constitutions or democracy's whilst it is going your way. That somehow some people believe their way is the only right way and everything including religion and politics must bow down to it.
Quote
Like Donald Trump.

The ONLY thing Donald Trump and I believe in, which is the same is that he became president by the PEOPLES way and choice.
And that without God, he would not be president. His policies are NOT my concern or what he does. He is not president of my Country and I did not vote him in. What he does or says has nothing to do with me, I do not live under anything he does.
So you wrongly assumed I somehow support TRUMP. When the only thing I am sure about is God put him in power.
Did not stop you trying to make me out to be something I am not.  Did not stop you making this a personal issue about something it was never about. Are you sure you are capable of reasoning through everything to do with Donald Trump and America? You don't live there, you know nothing of the way of life, there.
Hence I have no reason to judge anything he does and neither do you. It is none our business, what the Americans do in their own Country and who they elect is NOT our business.
Quote
Plus Sassy it wasn't Christian countries vs Hitler in Ww2.

It was far bigger than that... it was Hitler and his belief that the English Woman and German man would make the elite nation.
Jews, disabled and anyone not matter what faith who did not fit into that plan or go along with Hitlers were put to death.
Just as you and your beliefs in stopping TRUMP could cause a worst thing to happen for the people of America.
They already have families living in trailers, cars and even cardboard boxes because the benefit system (which ours is fast becoming the twin system) is leaving children with parents on the street and no one responsible to give aid etc.
I do know what is going on have seen it all over the internet and the news over the years in USA documentaries.
Quote
Germany was a very Christian country, a lot of the hatred aimed at Jews was generated by Christian beliefs. They were called Christ killers.
Christian Country? They called themselves a christian country but the Roman Catholic Church generated the Christ Killer part. Hence they did nothing to stop him because they foolish fool themselves to believing they are new root
and not grafted into the tree.
Quote
Winston Churchill did believe in a greater power, but his family was concerned he might become a Muslim

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11314580/Sir-Winston-Churchill-s-family-feared-he-might-convert-to-Islam.html

He also once said: "I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

What we make of a letter is of no use without the before and after.
His sister-in-law could have taken it into his head that a remark made by him lead her down that path.
It has no bearing on God using him or him remaining a Christian. You should read some of the things he said.
Anything can be taken out of context but his remark about himself and God cannot be.

Quote
I don't think he saw things the same way as you.
I think you have assumed he shared your beliefs, well unless you have a very high regard for Islam and Muslims,  he didn't.
Whilst, I have obviously never met him, I have met with members of his family. You, like many can make of what others have said., whatever you want. But we can see clearly that we do not know what his personal remarks meant regarding the letter from his sister-in-law.  We do know he said many things which could appear controversial by todays standards.  It shows that despite everything he still won the war and did what he was put in charge to do.
My belief is not in the man or men, it is in the God who created and knows me. So far, he has done all he said he would.
Whether someone, even yourself shares my belief is immaterial because at the end of the day you and I, do not decide the outcome of anything. A person who think they can, is a fool. Only God decides the outcome and men make their plans.
But anyone who is fool enough to destroy their own country by removing the constitution or the power of democracy, they deserve all they get.
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #585 on: May 13, 2017, 01:18:41 PM »
God didn't put Donald Trump inpower floo, he and his supporters are responsible for him being in the White House.

As I said before in post 644 on previous page -

" ...I have problems with the idea that God put him in power.  By same token God would have put Saddam Hussein or Hitler in power!

I don't believe God puts people in power, people do that. God doesn't stop us from from having success nor making mistakes & we bear the consequences.Trump being President of the USA is not God-ordained."

Rose and others have said the same.

I don't quite get whatSassy means on this issue.

What God allows (which Christians believe) is for us to make our own decisions some of which will be mistakes and we will reap the consequences, good or bad - we hope we'll learn from them. (Apols for repeat myself.)
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Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #586 on: May 14, 2017, 09:20:32 AM »
God didn't put Donald Trump inpower floo, he and his supporters are responsible for him being in the White House.

As I said before in post 644 on previous page -

" ...I have problems with the idea that God put him in power.  By same token God would have put Saddam Hussein or Hitler in power!

I don't believe God puts people in power, people do that. God doesn't stop us from from having success nor making mistakes & we bear the consequences.Trump being President of the USA is not God-ordained."

Rose and others have said the same.

I don't quite get whatSassy means on this issue.

What God allows (which Christians believe) is for us to make our own decisions some of which will be mistakes and we will reap the consequences, good or bad - we hope we'll learn from them. (Apols for repeat myself.)

IGNORANCE is not a good thing Robinson.

I also showed you that NO man can come to power unless God allows it.
Why do you make statements according to the flesh and not according to the truth?
Man isn't like God. We know that many things happened in the bible not liked. But God worked his purpose through them.


King James Bible 1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.


Romans 13(KJV)

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:


It requires understanding...
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #587 on: May 14, 2017, 10:53:42 AM »
(Reply to Sass)
God allowing is not the same as God doing. I already said I believe God allows us, or does not stop us, from making our own decisions. So I believe God did not put Trump in power but allowed human beings to do so for good or bad.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 11:30:49 AM by Robinson »
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Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #588 on: May 17, 2017, 01:13:17 AM »
(Reply to Sass)
God allowing is not the same as God doing. I already said I believe God allows us, or does not stop us, from making our own decisions. So I believe God did not put Trump in power but allowed human beings to do so for good or bad.

So how did Joseph or Moses get into power.
God knows the end from the beginning. HE HAS made it clear the powers that be are only there because HE ALLOWS.
Remind me how the end times develop and how God tells us about the beast etc and what GOD is going to do at the end of time?
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #589 on: May 17, 2017, 08:59:35 AM »
Sassy said HE ALLOWS and that is what I said, not the same thing as actually putting Trump where he is.

However floo, back to the latest which you have posted.

Floo:- Getting back to the bad comedy show which is Trump's presidency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39944520
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Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #590 on: May 17, 2017, 10:56:33 AM »
If all that is true Sass, it says nothing good about your version of god! >:(

Getting back to the bad comedy show which is Trump's presidency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39944520

NOTHING written in my post could bring you to that conclusion.
WHY do you write things which are purely from your own 'wanna be' perspective and NOTHING to do with what is actually written.
Ever thought you are reflecting your own true nature onto God and others. That you are all the things you accuse God and others of being?

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Sassy

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #591 on: May 17, 2017, 10:57:59 AM »
Sassy said HE ALLOWS and that is what I said, not the same thing as actually putting Trump where he is.

However floo, back to the latest which you have posted.

Floo:- Getting back to the bad comedy show which is Trump's presidency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39944520

Can you not understand  the truth that God has seen all things BUT HIS WILL HIS DONE so therefore he has the final decision as to whether Trump in power or not? You do not understand God or his purpose. You remind me of someone....
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #592 on: May 17, 2017, 11:34:20 AM »
Can you not understand  the truth that God has seen all things BUT HIS WILL HIS DONE so therefore he has the final decision as to whether Trump in power or not? You do not understand God or his purpose. You remind me of someone....

Possibly Sassy, i have thought about it a lot. Might be better if I didn't think about it from that angle at all! I said earlier in the thread i didn't thinki it was a good idea to bring any religious beliefs into this & wish I'd stuck to that even if others didn't.

Floo how on earth could you make such comparisons & don't be obsessed with Brady FGS he no longer exists.
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jeremyp

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #593 on: May 17, 2017, 06:48:56 PM »

If a country divides it will certainly fall. But it won't be Trumps fault but the people who went against the rights of the people and

The people voted for Clinton. She won the popular vote by more than two million
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Robbie

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #594 on: May 17, 2017, 06:55:29 PM »
Yes she did,we forget that. Stupid electoral system.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #595 on: May 17, 2017, 07:07:42 PM »
Yes she did,we forget that. Stupid electoral system.
as of course is FPTP.

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #596 on: May 17, 2017, 10:45:05 PM »
The American system is also FPTP - but with a post-election manipulation which makes some votes more powerful than others.
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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #597 on: May 17, 2017, 11:03:08 PM »
I don't think he will be President much longer. Impeachment has been mentioned. So - relax and let things take their course. We can't do much anyway.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #598 on: May 17, 2017, 11:39:35 PM »
I don't think he will be President much longer. Impeachment has been mentioned. So - relax and let things take their course. We can't do much anyway.
what do you think he will be impeached on?

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Re: President Elect Trump
« Reply #599 on: May 17, 2017, 11:42:18 PM »
The American system is also FPTP - but with a post-election manipulation which makes some votes more powerful than others.
No, it isn't. It has its own wrinkles but is not like FPTP