A film on the after-life

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a CNN article about a film called The Discovery...which explores what happens if we know that the after-life is real. He believes that it will trigger a spate of suicides.

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170124-film-review-the-discovery-explores-the-idea-of-an-afterlife

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The Discovery, which, like McDowell’s debut, The One I Love, he co-wrote with Justin Lader, opens with a jarring but gimmicky prologue. Thomas Harbor (Robert Redford), the scientist who has provided proof that there is some form of life after death, is in the midst of defending his findings to a TV interviewer (a far-too-brief appearance by Mary Steenburgen), when a member of her crew interrupts to blow his brains out on the air.

But in contrast with last year’s twin Sundance entries about the on-camera suicide of Florida newscaster Christine Chubbuck, his action isn’t a protest so much as an invitation: if there’s another world, it can’t be worse than this one, so why not get there as soon as you can?

Skip forward in time, and Thomas Harbor has gone into hiding. Suicide has become rife, with millions worldwide taking their own lives in an effort to find out what’s next. His son, Will (Jason Segel), a neurologist, has come to confront him, but en route to Thomas’s island retreat he meets Isla (Rooney Mara), a brooding bottle blonde who becomes both his foil and his accomplice, challenging and collaborating with him as he tries to fight his way to the truth, or at least a truth.

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Maybe this is why most people are programmed not to actually KNOW that the after-life is real but to merely have faith in it. It requires a certain type of maturity and mental stability to actually know about the after-life and still live on on earth...as many sages and saints do. 

Thought this might be of interest here.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Outrider]

Hi everyone,

Here is a CNN article about a film called The Discovery...which explores what happens if we know that the after-life is real. He believes that it will trigger a spate of suicides.

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170124-film-review-the-discovery-explores-the-idea-of-an-afterlife

***********

The Discovery, which, like McDowell’s debut, The One I Love, he co-wrote with Justin Lader, opens with a jarring but gimmicky prologue. Thomas Harbor (Robert Redford), the scientist who has provided proof that there is some form of life after death, is in the midst of defending his findings to a TV interviewer (a far-too-brief appearance by Mary Steenburgen), when a member of her crew interrupts to blow his brains out on the air.

But in contrast with last year’s twin Sundance entries about the on-camera suicide of Florida newscaster Christine Chubbuck, his action isn’t a protest so much as an invitation: if there’s another world, it can’t be worse than this one, so why not get there as soon as you can?

Skip forward in time, and Thomas Harbor has gone into hiding. Suicide has become rife, with millions worldwide taking their own lives in an effort to find out what’s next. His son, Will (Jason Segel), a neurologist, has come to confront him, but en route to Thomas’s island retreat he meets Isla (Rooney Mara), a brooding bottle blonde who becomes both his foil and his accomplice, challenging and collaborating with him as he tries to fight his way to the truth, or at least a truth.

************

Maybe this is why most people are programmed not to actually KNOW that the after-life is real but to merely have faith in it. It requires a certain type of maturity and mental stability to actually know about the after-life and still live on on earth...as many sages and saints do.

Why? If there is an afterlife, why is suicide a bad option, especially for those for whom this life is somehow not rewarding?

More importantly, though, why in the absence of any convincing evidence of an afterlife is your conclusion that we are inherently destined to believe but not accept 'proof', rather than the more obvious conclusion that the absence of any compelling evidence for an afterlife is perhaps the lack of an afterlife?

O.

[Shaker]

if there’s another world, it can’t be worse than this one

Why not?

What's the - I use the word for want of a better - rationale for this particular dollop of flat assertion?

Not that I believe in any other worlds, but I'm interested to see somebody try to defend this blatant piece of illogic.

[Sebastian Toe]

************

Maybe this is why most people are programmed not to actually KNOW that the after-life is real but to merely have faith in it. It requires a certain type of maturity and mental stability to actually know about the after-life and still live on on earth...as many sages and saints do. 

Thought this might be of interest here.

Cheers.

Sriram

Is this you admitting that the seemingly endless evidence that you keep presenting here regarding NDAs etc has not actually convinced you that they are accurate?

[Sriram]

Why? If there is an afterlife, why is suicide a bad option, especially for those for whom this life is somehow not rewarding?

More importantly, though, why in the absence of any convincing evidence of an afterlife is your conclusion that we are inherently destined to believe but not accept 'proof', rather than the more obvious conclusion that the absence of any compelling evidence for an afterlife is perhaps the lack of an afterlife?

O.

From what we hear about Near Death Experiences and from religious texts and spiritual philosophies....we don't have any option but to live in this world. We are expected to fulfill our duties here and go through the learning and development process. We don't have a choice. It is like a school where we are obliged to study and grow.

If we are allowed to run away home every time we have a problem in school....we will never develop. So...the after-life is not some holiday destination where we can escape to. It is where we go after fulfilling our duties here.

That is why suicide is considered a sin in all religious traditions. Most people having NDE's realize the importance of this life and become very serious and dutiful  after the experience.

That is perhaps why normal people are unable to see the reality of an after-life. It always remains a faith. Only when people are sufficiently developed spiritually will the reality of the after-life become apparent. Such people will never  try to commit suicide.

[Brownie]

A lot of sense there.

Though I don't consider suicide to be a 'sin', which means something punishable, because people who are suicidal are generally in a bad place that many cannot imagine if they haven't been there themselves, nevertheless I agree we are supposed to make the most of what we have in the here and now.

[Sriram]

A lot of sense there.

Though I don't consider suicide to be a 'sin', which means something punishable, because people who are suicidal are generally in a bad place that many cannot imagine if they haven't been there themselves, nevertheless I agree we are supposed to make the most of what we have in the here and now.

A 'sin' is just something prohibited. Punishment is a deterrent.

[Shaker]

From what we hear about Near Death Experiences and from religious texts and spiritual philosophies....we don't have any option but to live in this world.

That would obviously be the case if, as seems most likely, there's only one world to be in, or nowhere.

We are expected to fulfill our duties here and go through the learning and development process. We don't have a choice. It is like a school where we are obliged to study and grow.

Duties according to what or whom?

Expected and obliged by what or whom?

That is why suicide is considered a sin in all religious traditions.

It isn't.

That is perhaps why normal people are unable to see the reality of an after-life. It always remains a faith. Only when people are sufficiently developed spiritually will the reality of the after-life become apparent. Such people will never try to commit suicide.

"Sufficiently developed spiritually" by whose yardstick?

The arrogance is quite nauseating here, but wholly unsurprising.

[Brownie]

Yes, sririam.
In Christianity it is slightly differently but  on the whole I agree with you.

[Sriram]

The film seems to have focused only on suicides that could be triggered if the after-life is seen as real. But so many other things would also happen which would be much more significant.

1. People would be happier because they know death is only a transition.

2. People would be more moral and ethical because someone is watching and keeping records.

3. People will focus less on pleasures here and more on their duties and responsibilities.

4.  Scientists would stop philosophizing and giving their opinion on religion and spirituality. Dawkins would be somewhat depressed.

5. No one will bother about the cosmos and galaxies, big bang, exo planets etc. Better things to do.

6. Similarly with QM, evolution etc., though genetics and medical science would still be fairly relevant.

7. Crime may come down for fear of the after-life.....because the after-life does not mean only 'heaven', there would be a 'hell' too.  Some NDErs have said so.

8. Generally, priorities will change dramatically, and lifestyles will change...though some people may still be unable to control their base animal instincts. 

[Shaker]

2. People would be more moral and ethical because someone is watching and keeping records.

Because these less spiritually advanced types need nanny watching over them so they don't give in to their base animal instincts, right?

[Rhiannon]

I think base animal instincts are massive fun.  I'll take a punt on any afterlife not really giving a shit about them.

[Shaker]

I think base animal instincts are massive fun.

Seconded - I've always enjoyed them.

That's what comes of not being spiritually advanced not like as what Sriram are, I bet.

[Rhiannon]

Seconded - I've always enjoyed them.

That's what comes of not being spiritually advanced not like as what Sriram are, I bet.

Bet my dog's kinder than most spiritually advanced types though.

[Shaker]

Bet my dog's kinder than most spiritually advanced types though.

I would put a large sum of money on that. Not arrogant with it, either.

[Aruntraveller]

It doesn't matter how kind your dog is, German children are kinder.

(Not mine own - but I do like it)

[Shaker]

Bloody hell

[Udayana]

We could all try out what it might feel like:

Virtual out-of-body experience reduces your fear of death

"An illusion that mimics near-death experiences seems to reduce people’s fear of dying.

Mel Slater at the University of Barcelona, Spain, and his team have used virtual reality headsets to create the illusion of being separate from your own body. They did this by first making 32 volunteers feel like a virtual body was their own. While wearing a headset, the body would match any real movements the volunteers made. When a virtual ball was dropped onto the foot of the virtual body, a vibration was triggered on the person’s real foot."

[Udayana]

The film seems to have focused only on suicides that could be triggered if the after-life is seen as real. But so many other things would also happen which would be much more significant.

1. People would be happier because they know death is only a transition.

2. People would be more moral and ethical because someone is watching and keeping records.

3. People will focus less on pleasures here and more on their duties and responsibilities.

4.  Scientists would stop philosophizing and giving their opinion on religion and spirituality. Dawkins would be somewhat depressed.

5. No one will bother about the cosmos and galaxies, big bang, exo planets etc. Better things to do.

6. Similarly with QM, evolution etc., though genetics and medical science would still be fairly relevant.

7. Crime may come down for fear of the after-life.....because the after-life does not mean only 'heaven', there would be a 'hell' too.  Some NDErs have said so.

8. Generally, priorities will change dramatically, and lifestyles will change...though some people may still be unable to control their base animal instincts.

If those things are worth having, they should be adopted on their own merits, not because people have been indoctrinated into believing in wish-fulfilling fantasies and imaginary beings.

[Outrider]

1. People would be happier because they know death is only a transition.

Rather depends on the nature of those possible afterlives. I've read a description of the film, it doesn't go into too much detail about what the nature of this afterlife is, just that there's been proof of one.

2. People would be more moral and ethical because someone is watching and keeping records.

Again, rather depends on the nature of the afterlife - doesn't have to be a Watcher.

3. People will focus less on pleasures here and more on their duties and responsibilities.

Why? Part of the 'duties' we have here are about prolonging our lives and the lives of those around us, because death is a threat. If death is not a threat, just a step onwards, it becomes something not to be feared. Maybe the adrenaline junkies go wilder, knowing that there's no ultimate consequence?

4.  Scientists would stop philosophizing and giving their opinion on religion and spirituality. Dawkins would be somewhat depressed.

Are you kidding? If someone could prove an afterlife, the scientific community would be crawling all over the topic trying to find out what they could learn about it. Scientific work in the area would explode!

5. No one will bother about the cosmos and galaxies, big bang, exo planets etc. Better things to do.

Just like they've given up on geology because of cosmology and quantum theory?

6. Similarly with QM, evolution etc., though genetics and medical science would still be fairly relevant.

Really? How does this new form of life, this new region, this new way of being fit in with quantum mechanics, what does it tell us about the fundamental forces, are there new dimensions or fundamental forces at work? Does life in the afterlife 'evolve', how do earlier forms of life in this world reflect in that world, what does that tell us about them and us?

7. Crime may come down for fear of the after-life.....because the after-life does not mean only 'heaven', there would be a 'hell' too.  Some NDErs have said so.

Serious crime might go up, as the death penalty suddenly isn't so consequential to some, and killing people isn't quite the taboo it used to be. Other crimes might go down, as people aren't so materialistic, knowing that they really can't take it with them?

8. Generally, priorities will change dramatically, and lifestyles will change...though some people may still be unable to control their base animal instincts.

Maybe, maybe not. A lot of people would not believe - recall, there's scientific 'proof' of climate change and evolution, and we're still struggling to get that to stick in some place. Of the ones that do, there will be a range of reactions.

O.

[Sriram]

Yes...there could be a variety of reactions some of which  I have listed.   It assumes the after-life to be what most NDErs have stated it is.....both positive and negative.

But as I have said earlier...it is unlikely that most people will be able to think of it in real terms (like they think of some place on earth, for example).  Their mind would be rooted on earth and programmed accordingly.....which would create a veil of sorts.... and if anything, the after-life would remain only a matter of faith.

[ippy]

Who are you trying to convince Sriram?

ippy