Author Topic: 2016 and Mortality awareness  (Read 2307 times)

Owlswing

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2016 and Mortality awareness
« on: January 26, 2017, 04:38:24 PM »

Looking back at 2016 and at 2017 so far I have taken one thought from the unpleasantly long list of celebrities who have passed to the Summerlands in the period of 13 months, a list which inevitably will grow as 2017 passes.

Almost all these artists are people who entertained me as I grew up, some up to 10 years older than me, some a few years younger, and their departures have forced me to look at the questiion of "Just how much longer have I got?"

Over the past seven months or so I have considered the question and been forced to the conclusion that, in all probability, I am living on borrowed time but that worrying about it will, also in all probability, have only one outcome. It will shorten however much time I still have, worrying being, as far as I can see, one of the most debilitating avoidable 'illnesses' that humanity is heir to.

On this forum I have found friends and have made enemies, some from both groups are still here and some, also from both groups, have departed, for various reasons, for parts unknown. I have, despite the fact that I rarely post anymore but I do read the posts of others far more frequently, come to the realisation of just how much I miss those who have departed and how much poorer my advancing years would be if ALL those here were not here.

I have not participated in some of the discussions of subjects that have interested me as much as I might have wanted too as i have come, over the years, to realise just how far below those of others here my levels of intelligence and learning fall. My most useful adjunct to a perusal of the forum is the Oxford English dictionary.

All the above, taken as a whole, leads me to make this post to thank the forum denizens for both their friendship and their emnity before I suddenly find, from the other side of the veil, walking through the Summerlands, that I am no longer in a position to give that thanks.

To each and everyone who reads this my gratefull thanks for having made my life richer and for making what I have left brighter than it might otherwise have been.       
 
Thank you all, whoever and whereever you may be.
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Brownie

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 05:00:21 PM »
That is an outstandingly beautiful post, Owlswing.   Everyone would be glad to be able to express heartfelt feelings as eloquently as you just have.

Thank you very much indeed.
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

Gordon

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 05:04:44 PM »
Well said Owly - but I'm sure there's plenty of life in the old dog yet :)

Rhiannon

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 05:04:56 PM »
Sometimes there are posts - and posters - that remind me what a treasured community we are and how much I value my membership here.

Bless you, Sir Owl.

Udayana

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 05:11:33 PM »
Owlswing, thanks for your posts over the years which I have always found interesting, though usually have not had sufficient knowledge to respond to appropriately :)

Hopefully you will be with us for a long time still to come but, as the topic has come up, if you do find yourself in another space and happen to bump into Len - hope you will remember to encourage him to post here and admit he was wrong!
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

ippy

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 05:48:03 PM »
Good warm post Owl, I enjoy this forum in a similar way to you and like everybody here, just because we don't agree with others doesn't mean they're not appreciated, let's hope we all get a lot more oppertunities to have a go at you, I don't see why you should get away with it lightly.

Kindest of regards Owl, ippy

SusanDoris

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2017, 06:32:09 PM »
I echo the above sentiments. May I ask your age, Owlswing? I do this from the point of view of one nearly 81!
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Enki

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2017, 07:23:51 PM »
Looking back at 2016 and at 2017 so far I have taken one thought from the unpleasantly long list of celebrities who have passed to the Summerlands in the period of 13 months, a list which inevitably will grow as 2017 passes.

Almost all these artists are people who entertained me as I grew up, some up to 10 years older than me, some a few years younger, and their departures have forced me to look at the questiion of "Just how much longer have I got?"

Over the past seven months or so I have considered the question and been forced to the conclusion that, in all probability, I am living on borrowed time but that worrying about it will, also in all probability, have only one outcome. It will shorten however much time I still have, worrying being, as far as I can see, one of the most debilitating avoidable 'illnesses' that humanity is heir to.

On this forum I have found friends and have made enemies, some from both groups are still here and some, also from both groups, have departed, for various reasons, for parts unknown. I have, despite the fact that I rarely post anymore but I do read the posts of others far more frequently, come to the realisation of just how much I miss those who have departed and how much poorer my advancing years would be if ALL those here were not here.

I have not participated in some of the discussions of subjects that have interested me as much as I might have wanted too as i have come, over the years, to realise just how far below those of others here my levels of intelligence and learning fall. My most useful adjunct to a perusal of the forum is the Oxford English dictionary.

All the above, taken as a whole, leads me to make this post to thank the forum denizens for both their friendship and their emnity before I suddenly find, from the other side of the veil, walking through the Summerlands, that I am no longer in a position to give that thanks.

To each and everyone who reads this my gratefull thanks for having made my life richer and for making what I have left brighter than it might otherwise have been.       
 
Thank you all, whoever and whereever you may be.

As I am 76 today, I find your thoughts both poignant and moving, Owl. Over the years I have 'lost'several friends of mine, although they remain with me in my memories. I can also truthfully say that there are plenty of people who are (or have been) on this forum for whom I have the greatest respect and warmth. You are amongst that number. I don't necessarily have to agree with someone to feel that. I also feel that to hear the views of others has expanded me as a person in so many ways. Finally, remember what Socrates said: " I know that I am intelligent because I know that I know nothing"

I am also proudly sporting a badge on my right lapel, given to me today, which says "BEST GRANDAD IN  THE WORLD EVER!"   :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:29:19 PM by enki »
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Gordon

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 07:33:40 PM »

I am also proudly sporting a badge on my right lapel, given to me today, which says "BEST GRANDAD IN  THE WORLD EVER!"   :)

Oi - that is me  :) :) :) :)

Happy birthday old chap.

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2017, 09:13:59 PM »

I echo the above sentiments. May I ask your age, Owlswing? I do this from the point of view of one nearly 81!


Whoops! Error! Tilt!

In June 2017 I will be 71. My mortality is a major factor as I am both insulin dependant diabetic and asthmatic. This last is the major contributor to my worries as I live less than 1,500 feet vertically below the final approach to Runway 28 Right at London Heathrow Airport. This loction is deemed to be one of the most polluted in the South of England due to both jet engine and lorry and car and bus engine emissions - all heading for the airport! Do you need me to tell you which side of the Expand Heathrow argument I am on?

SusanDoris long may you outlive me!

The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 09:17:17 PM »
As I am 76 today, I find your thoughts both poignant and moving, Owl. Over the years I have 'lost'several friends of mine, although they remain with me in my memories. I can also truthfully say that there are plenty of people who are (or have been) on this forum for whom I have the greatest respect and warmth. You are amongst that number. I don't necessarily have to agree with someone to feel that. I also feel that to hear the views of others has expanded me as a person in so many ways. Finally, remember what Socrates said: " I know that I am intelligent because I know that I know nothing"

I am also proudly sporting a badge on my right lapel, given to me today, which says "BEST GRANDAD IN  THE WORLD EVER!"   :)

Reference the highlighted - what worries me most is that most of the people who have died over the last two or three years that I know, or knew, were actually YOUNGER than me! 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2017, 09:21:14 PM »
Oi - that is me  :) :) :) :)

Happy birthday old chap.

At the present moment my chances of becoming a grandfather are remote as my son will not start a family while he is still a copper as he has no intention of leavig his Mrs to cope alone in the event of him becoming a casualty, probably of gang-violence; my older daughter is still studying towards a Masters and a Doctorate in History and my younger daughter is gay! 
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 09:35:53 PM »

To Nearly Sane

My heartfelt thanks to you - that was one topic/thread that I never, ever, in a million years, expected to see a post of mine on.

The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Enki

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 10:05:33 PM »
Reference the highlighted - what worries me most is that most of the people who have died over the last two or three years that I know, or knew, were actually YOUNGER than me!

I think that is only to be expected, Owl. People who died when you were young would be much more likely to be older than you. As you get older the balance inevitably shifts. As you say, each death can make you increasingly aware of our own mortality. Of course I worry, probably like most people, that I might end up suffering and in pain, but I see nothing to be gained from this line of thought. So, my response is to try to make full use of, and enjoy the time that I have left  especially with regards to my loved ones and give free rein to my innate curiosity about so many things..at least while I am compos mentis. :)
Sometimes I wish my first word was 'quote,' so that on my death bed, my last words could be 'end quote.'
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Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 10:22:34 PM »
I think that is only to be expected, Owl. People who died when you were young would be much more likely to be older than you. As you get older the balance inevitably shifts. As you say, each death can make you increasingly aware of our own mortality. Of course I worry, probably like most people, that I might end up suffering and in pain, but I see nothing to be gained from this line of thought. So, my response is to try to make full use of, and enjoy the time that I have left  especially with regards to my loved ones and give free rein to my innate curiosity about so many things..at least while I am compos mentis. :)

Who the Hell told you that I was compos mentis! THEY LIE!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Aruntraveller

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 11:09:55 PM »
Quote
I have not participated in some of the discussions of subjects that have interested me as much as I might have wanted too as i have come, over the years, to realise just how far below those of others here my levels of intelligence and learning fall.

Instead of concentrating on the negative, accentuate the positive. Think how much higher you soar than some posters here ;)

Semi-joking aside, a lovely heartfelt post. I miss you when you don't post, even when I'm forced to correct you!

And on this:

Quote
On this forum I have found friends and have made enemies,

I prefer to think of that group of people, not as enemies, just as posters who haven't yet come round to my way of thinking.

As to living on borrowed time, I don't know, I tend to a rather simplistic approach on this. We are all on borrowed time from the day we are born.

I do spend some of my time worrying, like a dog with a bone, over friends who left too early, particularly in the 80's & early 90's - and goodness me I miss them still. But that in a way is OK - because they were here, and they did make a difference to me. How much worse would things have been if they had never existed at all.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SusanDoris

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 05:56:51 AM »
Whoops! Error! Tilt!

In June 2017 I will be 71. My mortality is a major factor as I am both insulin dependant diabetic and asthmatic. This last is the major contributor to my worries as I live less than 1,500 feet vertically below the final approach to Runway 28 Right at London Heathrow Airport. This loction is deemed to be one of the most polluted in the South of England due to both jet engine and lorry and car and bus engine emissions - all heading for the airport! Do you need me to tell you which side of the Expand Heathrow argument I am on?

SusanDoris long may you outlive me!
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry to hear of the long-term conditions you suffer from and do so hope that the continuing improvements being made in medical knowledge and procedures will enable you to keep on going for a good many years yet.
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Shaker

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2017, 05:19:05 PM »
A lovely, touching, poignant and thought-provoking post from Das Owlmeister. The only bit I didn't like was: "I have not participated in some of the discussions of subjects that have interested me as much as I might have wanted too as i have come, over the years, to realise just how far below those of others here my levels of intelligence and learning fall," since it's cobblers. We're not at Magdalene College now; nobody should feel themselves excluded from any discussion because they regard themselves as not intelligent or learned enough. In an all-too-short life seemingly spent saying wise, profound and beautiful things (how did he find the time ever to do any actual science?) one of my heroes, Carl Sagan, once said:

Quote
"You go talk to kindergartners or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. They ask deep questions. They ask, "what is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?"

These are profound, important questions."

He also said:

Quote
There are naive questions, tedious questions, ill-phrased questions, questions put after inadequate self-criticism. But every question is a cry to understand the world. There is no such thing as a dumb question.

Kids - unless held back or even damaged in some way, with their natural curiosity quashed and squashed and repressed - don't think of themselves as too dumb or dim to chip in.

I hope that that takes care of that particular bit of nonsense  :)

Back on topic:

By sheer coincidence I heard this morning of the death of Sir John Hurt aged 77, a great, great actor whose career I've followed for many years. In the BBC article reporting his death I found this:

Quote
Sir John was knighted in 2015 for his services to drama.

After his [Shaker: pancreatic: a late-presenting, 'silent' cancer not often survived] cancer diagnosis the same year, he told the Radio Times: "I can't say I worry about mortality, but it's impossible to get to my age and not have a little contemplation of it.

We're all just passing time, and occupy our chair very briefly.
"

which seems rather apposite in the context of this thread. I don't think you have to get to his age (as it then was) to contemplate mortality; but then I think it's a temperamental thing, a matter of nature and character and personality, because some people never think of it (at least perhaps until it's too late - woe betide them, for they die difficult and painful deaths) and others think of nothing else. Spinoza once famously said that: "A free man thinks of death least of all things; and his wisdom is a meditation not of death but of life," which is all very nice and all that if you're Spinoza. It may be true; but I also think it true that Spinoza is amongst the coldest, hardest, chilliest of thinkers who doesn't seem as though he had much truck with ordinary, normal, everyday life as it is actually lived by ordinary, normal, everyday people in the here and now. (Especially if you've waded through the Ethics). It seems to me to be right, but too icy and remote and Arctic a counsel of perfection. Spinoza was a great, great man; but temperamentally I'm more attuned to Stephen Fry, who relatively recently said (paraphrasing, but not incorrectly I think) that he thinks of death constantly precisely because the end of life is the end of all things and therefore constitutes a, or the, limit: the midnight hour, the last chance to do those things which you want to do that make up an enjoyable, meaningful and worthwhile life. Death is what makes life precious. As someone (I can't now remember who; I read so much, and forget the details) once said, life is at least potentially able to do; death is never able to do. Eternal life is the negation of life and evacuates existence of meaning, worth and value: infinite time equals no incentive to do any one particular thing over any other particular thing at any point whatever, since there is eternity in which to do something, there's no reason to do anything. In other words, in setting a limit or boundary to existence, death is what makes life valuable, meaningful and worthwhile.

Some on here may know that in October 2015 I had a fairly close shave with Mr D., which thank random chance and especially thank medical science via the Leicester Royal Infirmary passed quickly and from which I have had (so far: still time yet) no residual effects or repercussions. It didn't make me think any more of mortality than I already do since I have that cast of mind anyway. Should you survive such experiences however, it's no bad thing to have that bony tap on the shoulder which is a reminder not merely of death but - simultaneously - of life and all it ought be for.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 05:29:08 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 05:37:10 PM »
I've faced my own death and that of both my daughters and that made me aware that life hangs by the slenderest of threads, but also I've become increasingly aware that I have to seize life or die inside. Over the past year or two I've gone through so much heartache and change and fear and I've been hurt and had to hurt others. And I wouldn't have missed a minute and am open to the fact there is more to come, because I have never felt so alive.

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 06:39:53 PM »

A lovely, touching, poignant and thought-provoking post from Das Owlmeister. The only bit I didn't like was: "I have not participated in some of the discussions of subjects that have interested me as much as I might have wanted too as i have come, over the years, to realise just how far below those of others here my levels of intelligence and learning fall,"

Sorry to disagree with you, but my formal education ended at age 15 when I  joined the Army, the J L R - R A C.

I have read posts that contain terms that fly about 200 feet over my head - Ye Gods,! I had to look up "animism" in order to find out if my Pagan path was animistic - it's not, apparently.

An argument over one of Vlad's innumeranle 'isms' takes about three anti-Vladism posts to leave me totally drowning in ignorance.

In my next incarnation I intend, if re-incarnated human and non-disabled, to attempt to achieve a Univerity Degree in something!   
Advanced Vladisms maybe, because I would like to know what they really mean even if he doesn't?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 11:29:14 PM by Owlswing »
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Bubbles

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
Owlswing

That was a lovely OP.

I enjoy reading your posts, so thank you 🌹🍷🙂

Nearly Sane

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2017, 07:18:14 PM »
Sorry to disagree with you, but my formal education ended at age 15 when I  joined the Army, the J L R - R A C.

I have read posts that contain terms that fly about 200 feet over my head - Ye Gods,! I had to look up "animism" in order to find out if my Pagan path was animistic - it's not, apparently.

An argument over one of Vlad#s innumeranle 'isms' takesd about three anti-Vladism posts to leave me totally drowning in ignorance.

In my next incarnation I intend, if re-incarnated human and non-disabled to attempt to achieve a Univerity Degree in something!   
Advanced Vladisms maybe, because I would like to know what they really mean even if he doesn't?

Knowledge, even when properly used, isn't a sign of wisdom. 

Owlswing

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2017, 11:30:18 PM »

Knowledge, even when properly used, isn't a sign of wisdom.



It is a damned sight better than having neither.
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Shaker

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2017, 04:06:51 PM »
"Knowledge is knowing that technically a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: 2016 and Mortality awareness
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2017, 04:10:07 PM »
Knowledge means nothing without kindness and compassion.