Lee Hurst's Insights into Torture

[Rhiannon]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comedy/comedians/comedian-lee-hurst-fire-torture-remarks/

[Brownie]

I liked this remark on Twitter:
   "Do you pretend to be Alf Garnett on twitter for the attention?"

Being under fire is not always a bad thing for a comedian, they like to push boundaries and create controversy.  If he hadn't picked the subject of torture it would have been something equally unpalatable.

[Rhiannon]

There some great twitter comments on this.

'Simple. First you row the baby across the river. Then row back and get the time bomb and the goose, leaving the terrorist with the beans.'

[Owlswing]

Even on here no-one will answer Lee Hurst's question - except by not answering it they say "Let the baby die"!

Would I torture him? TOO DAMN RIGHT I WOULD!

[Rhiannon]

Yeah, but that says nothing about the use of torture by government.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jan/26/torture-baby-time-bomb-terrorist-trump-lee-hurst-comedian

[Owlswing]

Yeah, but that says nothing about the use of torture by government.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jan/26/torture-baby-time-bomb-terrorist-trump-lee-hurst-comedian

I will bet that, to some degree or another, in one form or another, almost all governments use torture.

The only downside is that, as proved during the Witch-trials and under Walsingham, someone under torture will usually tell the torturer what he/she wants to hear, be it truth or lie.

[Nearly Sane]

I'd torture




Only thing is if, the baby were to die despite my best torturing, I'd continue to torture him till he died a bleeding mess, then I'd find his wife and do the same, then any of his kids, then his siblings, then uncles , aunts, cousins, all family individually tortured and killed, then his friends, work colleagues, his teachers, people who sold him his newspaper, anyone who had been in a photograph with him, all tortured and killed individually. Then people who had the same name, who looked a bit like him if you squinted up your eyes, then people who drove the same car, all tortured and killed individually.

[Owlswing]

I'd torture




Only thing is if, the baby were to die despite my best torturing, I'd continue to torture him till he died a bleeding mess, then I'd find his wife and do the same, then any of his kids, then his siblings, then uncles , aunts, cousins, all family individually tortured and killed, then his friends, work colleagues, his teachers, people who sold him his newspaper, anyone who had been in a photograph with him, all tortured and killed individually. Then people who had the same name, who looked a bit like him if you squinted up your eyes, then people who drove the same car, all tortured and killed individually.

Note to self - DO NOT PISS NS OFF!

[Rhiannon]

I'd torture




Only thing is if, the baby were to die despite my best torturing, I'd continue to torture him till he died a bleeding mess, then I'd find his wife and do the same, then any of his kids, then his siblings, then uncles , aunts, cousins, all family individually tortured and killed, then his friends, work colleagues, his teachers, people who sold him his newspaper, anyone who had been in a photograph with him, all tortured and killed individually. Then people who had the same name, who looked a bit like him if you squinted up your eyes, then people who drove the same car, all tortured and killed individually.

Donald? Is that you?

[Outrider]

Even on here no-one will answer Lee Hurst's question - except by not answering it they say "Let the baby die"!

Would I torture him? TOO DAMN RIGHT I WOULD!

Why? Time and time again it's been demonstrated that information derived from torture is unreliable. You torture him, he tells you how to defuse the bomb, you go to do it and trigger the booby-trap, taking you with the baby...

Whatever the moral arguments against the act of torture itself, and the extension of it into the realm of the purpose of punishment, from a purely pragmatic point of view torture is unreliable. Information derived from torture is unreliable.

That was the case with the Witchfinders, and it remained the case with waterboarding.

If your child is attached to a bomb, give the pliers to the bomb-disposal expert, not the finger-nail removal specialist.

O.

[Owlswing]

Why? Time and time again it's been demonstrated that information derived from torture is unreliable. You torture him, he tells you how to defuse the bomb, you go to do it and trigger the booby-trap, taking you with the baby...

Whatever the moral arguments against the act of torture itself, and the extension of it into the realm of the purpose of punishment, from a purely pragmatic point of view torture is unreliable. Information derived from torture is unreliable.

That was the case with the Witchfinders, and it remained the case with waterboarding.

If your child is attached to a bomb, give the pliers to the bomb-disposal expert, not the finger-nail removal specialist.

O.

Check how many deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan were IED's causing thedeaths of  bomb-disposal experts.

As NS ost suggests - thee likelihood is tht the baby is going to die - at least you can ensure that the terrorist dies in the same agony as the baby. The difference? The bomb maker deserves it!

[floo]

Torture can never be justified, imo.

[Sebastian Toe]

Tie the terrorist to the bomb. Might be worth a shot?

[Rhiannon]

http://newsthump.com/2017/01/27/isis-thank-lee-hurst-for-innovative-baby-strapped-to-time-bomb-idea/

[Outrider]

As NS ost suggests - thee likelihood is tht the baby is going to die - at least you can ensure that the terrorist dies in the same agony as the baby. The difference? The bomb maker deserves it!

And how does that make us any better than them?

O.

[Owlswing]

Torture can never be justified, imo.

So you would do nothing if YOUR baby were attched to the bomb? I mean other than shit in your knickers?

If your answer is "yes" I am damn glad I was/am not your child!

[Walter]

Torture can never be justified, imo.

outrageous!

[Outrider]

So you would do nothing if YOUR baby were attched to the bomb? I mean other than shit in your knickers?

If your answer is "yes" I am damn glad I was/am not your child!

Wow, all the possibilities in the world, and you reduce it to a false dichotomy of 'become a terrorist' or 'become a statue'.

O.

[Owlswing]

Wow, all the possibilities in the world, and you reduce it to a false dichotomy of 'become a terrorist' or 'become a statue'.

O.

What?

What, precisely, would you do in the quoted circumstances? The bomber is inflicting the most horrific form of psychological pain possible to inflict on any parent - the probability is that this bastard is going to let the baby die, I, for one, am not going to let the bastard live to boast of what he has done and I am not going to let the last few hours of his life be painless!

   

[Walter]

What?

What, precisely, would you do in the quoted circumstances? The bomber is inflicting the most horrific form of psychological pain possible to inflict on any parent - the probability is that this bastard is going to let the baby die, I, for one, am not going to let the bastard live to boast of what he has done and I am not going to let the last few hours of his life be painless!

 

Im with you mate , threaten my child and I will kill you !

[Bubbles]

Note to self - DO NOT PISS NS OFF!

I was just thinking the same thing 

[Bubbles]

And how does that make us any better than them?

O.

We are doing it to rescue an innocent baby?

[Bubbles]

Im with you mate , threaten my child and I will kill you !

Yes, ultimately faced with no alternative and no bomb disposal expert on hand, I'd take the law into my own hands.

Torture is nasty though, and I'd hate myself for it.

If anyone had messed with my kids, I'd have done whatever I needed to, to protect them and faced prison afterwards.

If faced with a lone gunman shooting children in a school, and I had the oppotunity I'd shoot him dead to protect the children, even if not mine.
However I'd have to put up with being punished for it, in some cases I guess I'd deem it worth it.

However none of that excuses a government from torturing random people without trial, on land outside their own country, because they are breaking their own human rights laws.

Some of the inmates in guatanmo bay may well not even have any attachment to terrorists, they are brown and Muslim and were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They have not been given a fair trial, guilt is assumed and that's not good enough IMO.

That's the problem.

Water boarding non convicted people without trial.

At least with the baby scenario you can be reasonably sure the terrorist is guilty.

[Nearly Sane]

We are doing it to rescue an innocent baby?

What if he thinks killing your baby will stop babies being killed by your govt? Are you saying he would be right to do so?

[Bubbles]

What if he thinks killing your baby will stop babies being killed by your govt? Are you saying he would be right to do so?

No, but I'm not convinced I'd be right by torturing him to save my baby, but I'm not sure leaving the baby to it,  is right either, so I'd go with my heart, and save my baby.

Then spend time in jail probably.

There is no satisfactory answer to this one, except maybe convert him to my way of thinking and that's unlikely in a short period of time.

I'd try and go with the answer I could cope with, I'm not sure I could cope with either letting the baby die or torturing the terrorist tbh.

But I'd have to face the consequences of my choice, afterwards.

I might even have to concede my choice was the wrong one.

But I do what I thought at the time, like a lot of others.