Author Topic: Scriptural Interpretation  (Read 22635 times)

Stranger

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2017, 10:34:45 AM »
You'll need to explain yourself then.

It's all a bit "People's Front of Judea" vers. "Judean People's Front"...
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Anchorman

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2017, 10:38:10 AM »
Eh? The Monophysites and others like them ceased to be Orthodox when the rejected the faith of the Chalcedonian fathers.


.........according to ONE branch of Orthodoxy........
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Gordon

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2017, 11:33:10 AM »
Moderator:

These posts were split from the President Trump thread as a derail. I've renamed then as above and moved them here should those involved wish to continue the discussion.

N.B. The 'OP' for this thread is the earliest post split, which is by Prof D, even though this wasn't originally intended as an OP.

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2017, 11:47:52 AM »

.........according to ONE branch of Orthodoxy........

The ecumenical councils are the mark of orthodoxy. Reject the councils or even part of them and one ceases to be orthodox. It's as simple as that.
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Anchorman

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2017, 01:14:05 PM »
The ecumenical councils are the mark of orthodoxy. Reject the councils or even part of them and one ceases to be orthodox. It's as simple as that.



-
Nope.
Rejecting the 'Councils' is simply rejecting the 'Councils'.
It's as simple as that.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2017, 01:20:12 PM »
Vlad,

Quote
Once again......you are confusing interpretation with Bowdlerisation.

Presumably you’ll be along soon to explain the difference then won’t you.

“I interpret some parts of Scripture that I don’t agree with as not God’s word after all”.

“You’re bowdlerising my holy book”.

How should anyone decide which one is right?

Quote
The issue is yours and your inability to discriminate.

Not until you can provide a meaningful explanation of the difference between the two it isn’t. Over to you then...
"Don't make me come down there."

God

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2017, 01:59:50 PM »


-
Nope.
Rejecting the 'Councils' is simply rejecting the 'Councils'.
It's as simple as that.

Spoken like a true heretic. The holy ecumenical councils are the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church. They articulate the apostolic and orthodox faith in response to heresy. To reject them is to reject the Holy Spirit.
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Stranger

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2017, 02:02:58 PM »
Spoken like a true heretic. The holy ecumenical councils are the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church. They articulate the apostolic and orthodox faith in response to heresy. To reject them is to reject the Holy Spirit.

Splitters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
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ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2017, 02:05:31 PM »
Zzzzz!
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Walter

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2017, 02:08:06 PM »

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2017, 02:10:34 PM »
Spoken like a true heretic. The holy ecumenical councils are the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church. They articulate the apostolic and orthodox faith in response to heresy. To reject them is to reject the Holy Spirit.
In your opinion.

Please be aware that other opinions are available.

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2017, 02:13:42 PM »
In your opinion.

Please be aware that other opinions are available.

No, not in my opinion. It is the belief of historical Christianity.
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Stranger

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2017, 02:17:54 PM »
No, not in my opinion. It is the belief of historical Christianity.

In your opinion...    ::)
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2017, 02:22:21 PM »
No, not in my opinion. It is the belief of historical Christianity.
In your opinion.

Other opinions are available, including plenty who think your position is wrong and their view on Christianity is correct.

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2017, 02:24:52 PM »
In your opinion.

Other opinions are available, including plenty who think your position is wrong and their view on Christianity is correct.

No, not just my opinion. The councils themselves and their anathemas are proof of this, that they are the mark of orthodoxy.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2017, 02:31:55 PM »
No, not just my opinion. The councils themselves and their anathemas are proof of this, that they are the mark of orthodoxy.
Hmm - self validation - not really very robust I'm sure you will agree.

So effectively your argument is that you are right because the hierarchy in your denomination says they are right. Well guess what chum, all denominations think they are right and their hierarchies also adopt self validation to 'prove' they are right. But of course all are merely opinions.

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2017, 03:37:44 PM »
Hmm - self validation - not really very robust I'm sure you will agree.

So effectively your argument is that you are right because the hierarchy in your denomination says they are right. Well guess what chum, all denominations think they are right and their hierarchies also adopt self validation to 'prove' they are right. But of course all are merely opinions.

We'll the Proddies broke off from the Roman Catholics who broke off from Orthodoxy. They both ended up falling under the anathemas of the councils which they too, until they broke away, used as the mark of orthodoxy. They chose whim instead of collegiality.
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Anchorman

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2017, 04:06:50 PM »
Eh? What is 'heretical' in accepting the God given Scripture and letting Him work through it, rather than wasting time with a shower of flawed men in funny costumes, who were often as corrupt as the rulers they served (and sometimes appointed)?
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2017, 04:22:50 PM »
We'll the Proddies broke off from the Roman Catholics who broke off from Orthodoxy. They both ended up falling under the anathemas of the councils which they too, until they broke away, used as the mark of orthodoxy. They chose whim instead of collegiality.
And ...

Sure I understand the history, but this is completely irrelevant to the point, which is who (if any) are right. No doubt the groups that broke away did so because, in their opinion, the more established denomination has moved away from what they felt was the true path of Christianity. So just because one organisation is older is no guarantee of greater veracity.

ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2017, 04:24:31 PM »
Eh? What is 'heretical' in accepting the God given Scripture and letting Him work through it, rather than wasting time with a shower of flawed men in funny costumes, who were often as corrupt as the rulers they served (and sometimes appointed)?

The proof that your approach has little or nothing to do with the Holy Spirit is in the fact that protestantism fragmented almost immediately into divers sects. Why? Because they all feel they can interpret the holy scriptures on their own whim. The Apostles gave us the example at Jerusalem: collegiality.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2017, 04:25:54 PM »
And ...

Sure I understand the history, but this is completely irrelevant to the point, which is who (if any) are right. No doubt the groups that broke away did so because, in their opinion, the more established denomination has moved away from what they felt was the true path of Christianity. So just because one organisation is older is no guarantee of greater veracity.

No visible link to the Apostles means they cannot be the Church.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2017, 04:34:45 PM »
No visible link to the Apostles means they cannot be the Church.
In your opinion.

If a current protestant denomination can trace its origins (as I guess they all can) back to the Apostles, then your point is pretty much irrelevant. And continuity means nothing if you are wrong, all it means is that you keep on being wrong for a very, very long time. Not saying you are by the way - but I am saying that you cannot say with any more certainty that you are right than adherents of any other denomination.

And of course you could all be wrong.

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2017, 04:45:18 PM »
The proof that your approach has little or nothing to do with the Holy Spirit is in the fact that protestantism fragmented almost immediately into divers sects. Why? Because they all feel they can interpret the holy scriptures on their own whim. The Apostles gave us the example at Jerusalem: collegiality.

I would suggest that this is an indication that the said 'Holy Spirit' is non-existent. In the former case, the structure of the Church was held in place by hierarchical structures adumbrated in the Pastoral Epistles: in other words the apparent unity was maintained by power. In the case of Protestantism, the rapid fragmentation occurred not so much because everyone felt free to obey their 'whims', but because they thought that each individual could gain the ear of the deity.
Still, I suppose the 'priesthood of all believers' is scriptural - but that's a good recipe for a free-for-all in the first place :)
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ad_orientem

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2017, 04:56:06 PM »
I would suggest that this is an indication that the said 'Holy Spirit' is non-existent. In the former case, the structure of the Church was held in place by hierarchical structures adumbrated in the Pastoral Epistles: in other words the apparent unity was maintained by power. In the case of Protestantism, the rapid fragmentation occurred not so much because everyone felt free to obey their 'whims', but because they thought that each individual could gain the ear of the deity.
Still, I suppose the 'priesthood of all believers' is scriptural - but that's a good recipe for a free-for-all in the first place :)

Nowhere does it say in the NT that all believers are priests. That is a Protestant invention.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 05:21:08 PM by ad_orientem »
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Stranger

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Re: Scriptural Interpretation
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2017, 05:20:37 PM »
Nowhere does it say in the NT that all believers are priets. That is a protestant invention.

In your opinion.

I think 1 Peter 2:5-9 is the reference. Honestly, you'd have thought a god could at least make its message clear and unambiguous....
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