Religion and Therapy

[Nearly Sane]

Does the use of religion in therapy make sense? Does it matter what the religion is?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38932954

[Rhiannon]

It has to be done very carefully. It can feed anxiety and OCD - in fact religious practice is often not recommended for the latter. One woman I knew carried her Bible in her hand constantly as she believed she wasn't safe if she didn't. All kinds of religious and spiritual practices can carry this risk - think lucky rabbits foot.

Yesterday I was reading something about how conservative religious groups in the States view mental health intervention with suspicion. If standard practices can be adapted for faith groups and it helps is that a good thing or is it dishonest on some way? I don't know.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, that is how it seems to me. If something works, then is it worth it. A purist approach to honesty on these things seems somehow inhuman.

[Rhiannon]

In order for this to work religious leaders absolutely have to be brought onside. It's a different kind of illness but I've said before on here about the woman I came across who had MS and who was shunned by her church for 'unrepented sin' after a healing service for her didn't have the desired effect of her throwing her wheelchair away. Equally I've read in Alpha News accepting the Holy Spirit into their lives and being cured of depression and addiction, which is great, but what happens to those who go on Alpha and find that it doesn't work for them like that? And then there is the disgusting and pernicious Law of Attraction beloved by New Agers; I've been told to my face that my anxiety 'attracted' my daughter's illness.

A lot of religious and spiritual practices teach that faith brings certainty and safety - or sometimes people turn to them seeking that, I've done it myself. An important part of good mental health is making peace with uncertainty and being ok with taking risk - to an anxious person 'risk' can be something as everyday as catching a train or going somewhere crowded. I guess it is important that somewhere down the line this gets framed as 'Jesus/God/your angels are with you but bad things might still happen'.

[ippy]

In order for this to work religious leaders absolutely have to be brought onside. It's a different kind of illness but I've said before on here about the woman I came across who had MS and who was shunned by her church for 'unrepented sin' after a healing service for her didn't have the desired effect of her throwing her wheelchair away. Equally I've read in Alpha News accepting the Holy Spirit into their lives and being cured of depression and addiction, which is great, but what happens to those who go on Alpha and find that it doesn't work for them like that? And then there is the disgusting and pernicious Law of Attraction beloved by New Agers; I've been told to my face that my anxiety 'attracted' my daughter's illness.

A lot of religious and spiritual practices teach that faith brings certainty and safety - or sometimes people turn to them seeking that, I've done it myself. An important part of good mental health is making peace with uncertainty and being ok with taking risk - to an anxious person 'risk' can be something as everyday as catching a train or going somewhere crowded. I guess it is important that somewhere down the line this gets framed as 'Jesus/God/your angels are with you but bad things might still happen'.

Don't you think  there will always be a number of people as the ones you have described and if it wasn't religion they would find something else, equally as silly, as an excuse.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

Don't you think  there will always be a number of people as the ones you have described and if it wasn't religion they would find something else, equally as silly, as an excuse.

ippy

excuse for what?

[ippy]

excuse for what?

Sorry about that N S, I presumed you'd read the link in the OP.

ippy

[Bubbles]

I think if the person is already of that faith and their church plays a non judgemental and supportive role, ok.

Otherwise I think
It could be very harmful.

There are still people, even in the U.K., who believe epilepsy is a form of demon possession. They might not be "clergy" or onside but they are more likely to be not helpful and  the cause of mental illness.  (If you weren't mentally ill to start with, you might be by the end)

Some religious denominataions are worse than others as to how harmful they are.

Personally if I had any anxiety I'd stay away from some forms of Pentecostalism.  They may seem more friendly and open, but in many cases are not.


I've heard some awful stories where friends haven't been supported when in need.
Mental illness is a difficult one to mix with religion, too many people in the congregations think it's a form of possession.
Certainly, friends with these issues who are also Christian don't paint a happy picture, it's the congregation  rather than the clergy that seem to be the issue.


I'm about 80% against.

Based on religious friends experiences.

[floo]

Religion is more likely to screw you up than be helpful, imo.

[Nearly Sane]

Sorry about that N S, I presumed you'd read the link in the OP.

ippy

Don't see what the link does to help here. Excuse for what?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes there are people in ministry without the necessary skills. Most trained clergy would though distinguish between a psychological problem and a religious problem.

There are very good people working in secular therapy that is non religious but I do worry for the people working in transactional therapies in a world where the secular modus is fast becoming confrontational and gladiatorial and tomes by contemporary philosophers are beginning to talk about economically redundant ''useless'' people.

A question which supercedes the religion and therapy question is how can any therapies based on building people up survive when the zeitgeist is that the devil or Darwin take the hindmost?

[Sebastian Toe]

Yes there are people in ministry without the necessary skills. Most trained clergy would though distinguish between a psychological problem and a religious problem.

When someone is saying that God is talking to them, under which of the two categories does that fall?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

When someone is saying that God is talking to them, under which of the two categories does that fall?

If we are talking hearing voices most clergy would refer to a doctor to get it checked out.

Just like the actress who swooned when Dawkins showed up on set or anyone on this forum for that matter.

[ippy]

Don't see what the link does to help here. Excuse for what?

I'm not trying to be obtuse and my use of the word, excuse, might not be micro correct but still intelligble by most people.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

I'm not trying to be obtuse and my use of the word, excuse, might not be micro correct but still intelligble by most people.

ippy

Then why not just explain it rather than use an asserted ad populum fallacy?

[Udayana]

I should think that, when religious people, in regular contact with a priest or other religious figure, are depressed or have other mental problems, it would generally help to be able to talk to them and be referred to a therapist.

I find it difficult to believe that any mental health problems would not be affected by religious beliefs, identity or feelings, and generally the persons outlook on life, sense of purpose and so on. Either as a cause or a component of therapy. But does anyone understand this or are we just messing around in the dark?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The point is that in the near future therapies will have a paywall around them. A different psychology will be imputed according to social class. As in the past it will then be up to Marxists, Christians and other religionists and to minister to the needs of the outcast.

[Udayana]

hmm... hopefully not!

[Rhiannon]

Access to decent mental health therapy is already dependent on ability to pay.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Access to decent mental health therapy is already dependent on ability to pay.

There you go.

[Nearly Sane]

Access to decent mental health therapy is already dependent on ability to pay.

I would suggest that it always has been

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would suggest that it always has been

I would disagree.

[Udayana]

I would suggest that it always has been

Doesn't seem a logical or sane way to set up a system where the people that will likely need it most would probably be least able to pay.

[wigginhall]

Quite a lot of therapists do low-cost sessions, although I don't know how long they would do that.   Also, of course, you can get so many free sessions via NHS, although usually it will be CBT, and you won't get much, maybe 8-12 sessions?   I think it has been a middle-class thing, although this is changing.    Of course, if you are really ill, you will get free treatment, but drugs will be involved also.

[ippy]

Then why not just explain it rather than use an asserted ad populum fallacy?

You're the way you are, that's fine with me, I just think when you are familiar with a poster here on the forum, there shouldn't be a need to be so precise or any need to micro manage words, when knowing how the poster writes in general.

I don't write a thousand words when fewer can still put over a point, with a little thought on the part of the reader, whoever that might be, they can usually work out the meanings of the person trying to convey his or her thoughts and on top of that if you want perfect, don't look at me, even though I know it's difficult to believe it but I'm not.

I'm not you NS and therefore don't write in the same way as you and that's not going to change.

Please do whatever you like make any comment you like, whatever pleases you.
ippy