German Brits

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a BBC article about Brits in Germany who are seeking German citizenship.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-39082468

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The Brexit debate in the UK is focusing on the rights of EU migrants in the country, among them about 300,000 Germans. Many people are worried about what will happen to them after Brexit. But how are the 100,000 Brits in Germany feeling?

Most are either applying for German citizenship or counting the days until they've spent enough time here to be eligible.

Not so very long ago, saying to other Brits that you're becoming German would almost inevitably lead to some tired gag about Nazis or towels on sun loungers. And although some British headlines might still use those cliches - and you can expect a few more if Brexit talks get nasty - today, modern Germany is seen more often as a bastion of tolerant values: international, democratic and open to immigrants.

...over the past few decades Germany has been going through a difficult, and largely successful, process of redefining what it means to be German. Angela Merkel now refers to Germany as "a country of immigration" - an unimaginable statement for a centre-right chancellor until very recently. And today 20% of Germans are described as having a migrant background.

Brexit-Britain and Trump's US, meanwhile, seem to be heading in the opposite direction.

*************

Any views?

Sriram

[Harrowby Hall]

As some you may be aware, I own property in France. I know a number of British people who live permanently in France.

Many of them are concerned by the hard line towards the UK leaving the EU to which Theresa May appears to be espoused. They find her apparently absolutist rhetoric difficult to understand. These feelings are complicated by the possibility that France may elect Marine Le Pen to the presidency later this year.

There is no certainty of non-British EU citizens currently living in the UK being permitted to continue doing so should the UK leave the EU. There is every possibility that EU countries, in the future, will not permit UK citizens to continue to reside there should UK citizens cease to be EU citizens. The precaution of seeking citizenship of the country in which they have made their home is entirely sensible. This step does not diminish their "Britishness", they simply acquire dual nationality.

I don't know of anyone who finds this approach to solving a problem of personal security surprising, Sriram, so what is it that you find sufficiently remarkable to raise it in your original post?


I know people who have applied for French citizenship and I also know of people who considering acquiring Irish nationality - which apparently only requires that one grandparent should have been an Irish citizen.

[Sriram]

Hmmm....! Some of you seem to think any thread on the UK is some kind of an affront!  Not a good sign!! 

[Sebastian Toe]

Hmmm....! Some of you

Would you care to name those people? 

[Udayana]

As some you may be aware, I own property in France. I know a number of British people who live permanently in France.

Many of them are concerned by the hard line towards the UK leaving the EU to which Theresa May appears to be espoused. They find her apparently absolutist rhetoric difficult to understand. These feelings are complicated by the possibility that France may elect Marine Le Pen to the presidency later this year.

There is no certainty of non-British EU citizens currently living in the UK being permitted to continue doing so should the UK leave the EU. There is every possibility that EU countries, in the future, will not permit UK citizens to continue to reside there should UK citizens cease to be EU citizens. The precaution of seeking citizenship of the country in which they have made their home is entirely sensible. This step does not diminish their "Britishness", they simply acquire dual nationality.

I don't know of anyone who finds this approach to solving a problem of personal security surprising, Sriram, so what is it that you find sufficiently remarkable to raise it in your original post?


I know people who have applied for French citizenship and I also know of people who considering acquiring Irish nationality - which apparently only requires that one grandparent should have been an Irish citizen.

Hopefully we will guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the UK and these and the rights of UK citizens in the EU will be defined and agreed at the start of any negotiations. A son lives and works in Spain, so this is a concern.

Can't see any problems with people adopting the nationality of the country they are living in. I lived and worked in Germany for a few years in the early 80s - if I were still there would almost certainly have taken up German citizenship by now. People were very friendly and welcoming (though at that time few understood vegetarianism ). The only explicit racism I encountered was from Turks!
 

[ippy]

Hmmm....! Some of you seem to think any thread on the UK is some kind of an affront!  Not a good sign!! 

I looked and looked and couldn't see any affronedness in the posts on the thread Sriram H H is concerned about the status of people not living in their own countries when we have left, he has a house in France, he's right to be concerned, we all are, I'm a leaver can't wait to leave but I still want to see fair play for any displaced persons, property rights etc, English or any of the others.

Can't see what you mean Sriram, perhaps you could clarify.

ippy

 

[Sriram]

I looked and looked and couldn't see any affronedness in the posts on the thread Sriram H H is concerned about the status of people not living in their own countries when we have left, he has a house in France, he's right to be concerned, we all are, I'm a leaver can'r wait to leave but I still want to see fair play for any displaced persons, property rights etc, English or any of the others.

Can't see what you mean Sriram, perhaps you could clarify.

ippy

 

That's precisely my point. There is lots to discuss on this subject and is quite topical.

But HH reacted by asking why I am raising this subject. A similar question was raised about the Schizophrenia thread. Quite clearly some people are touchy about UK related subjects being raised, even though inane threads are being stared every day  which no one questions. 

[Robbie]

People don't see that attitude in themselves Sriraim.

[Rhiannon]

I'm not remotely touchy about threads raised about issues in the UK - and let's face it, there are shed loads of them.

I am cynical about Sriram's motivation in doing so given his track record of using legit stories about the UK to promote his view that Indian culture is superior to the disgusting and decadent west. I have to say that he's getting better at not being so obvious about it these days.

[ippy]

That's precisely my point. There is lots to discuss on this subject and is quite topical.

But HH reacted by asking why I am raising this subject. A similar question was raised about the Schizophrenia thread. Quite clearly some people are touchy about UK related subjects being raised, even though inane threads are being stared every day  which no one questions.

I'm not sure if this is any kind of answer or not; I think in common with most leavers I thought we have been clear about cutting our ties with europe whilst wishing to remain on good terms with our neighbours, with things like being fair to displaced people of all nationalities as I have said.

Maybe it's because we have stated our case for leaving with the details so many times, it can be a bit peeving when asked something thought to be understood previously, i.e. "oh no not again"?

ippy

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I have been looking into taking up dual UK/Romanian citizenship. I would far rather be associated with Romanians than with Brexiters.

[Nearly Sane]

I have been looking into taking up dual UK/Romanian citizenship. I would far rather be associated with Romanians than with Brexiters.

So you would be a Remainian Romanian?

[Humph Warden Bennett]

 

Of course.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course.

just a pity you are Orthodox, instead of RC as that would be Remainian Romanian Roman

[Sriram]

I'm not remotely touchy about threads raised about issues in the UK - and let's face it, there are shed loads of them.

I am cynical about Sriram's motivation in doing so given his track record of using legit stories about the UK to promote his view that Indian culture is superior to the disgusting and decadent west. I have to say that he's getting better at not being so obvious about it these days.

I told you so...!   

[Sriram]

I'm not sure if this is any kind of answer or not; I think in common with most leavers I thought we have been clear about cutting our ties with europe whilst wishing to remain on good terms with our neighbours, with things like being fair to displaced people of all nationalities as I have said.

Maybe it's because we have stated our case for leaving with the details so many times, it can be a bit peeving when asked something thought to be understood previously, i.e. "oh no not again"?

ippy

It was in the BBC news site. So it was topical enough I should think.  If people have nothing to comment...they shouldn't!

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

There appears to be a subtle 'foreigner' bias surfacing on here.  Shows the effects of the Brexit vote perhaps (largely among the remainers I find, oddly!).

I don't see anything wrong with either this thread or the schizophrenia thread. Both were reported on the BBC of that day and both are fairly important subjects compared to the threads on swearing, Pancake, grandmother etc.....and the innumerable ones started by NS.

No....I don't intent to take offence because I know the insecurities involved. I understand!

Just that you people and the mods should wake up to the fact.

Cheers.

Sriram 

PS: I have pointed this out some months/years back.  I know Rhiannon, HH and some others, have a problem and are always itching to make a negative point about India. Please start a thread....I'll discuss. Don't keep getting defensive about UK on every thread.

[Maeght]

Hi everyone,

There appears to be a subtle 'foreigner' bias surfacing on here.

Why do you assume it is a foreigner bias and not just about you?

[Robbie]

I found the opening post reasonably interesting, got the point after reading twice & can't say I saw any bias in it at all. Germany was praised but it didn't seem anti-British, was just stating facts as seen from outside both.
The unexpected Brexit vote was a shock and has caused insecurity but we'll manage and everything will settle down eventually. We've weathered war and recessions, we'll get through this.

[Sriram]

Why do you assume it is a foreigner bias and not just about you?

Lots of people have a problem with me. One, that I am in India, second that I am a Hindu, third that I advocate secular spirituality, fourth I also write significantly about science topics and (horror of horrors!) I actually try to integrate spirituality and science.... and even call spirituality a Science!! 

I have tolerated it for more than 17 years from the BBC boards. Some more years will not hurt.

I am not going to change, so get used to it!   

[Sriram]

I found the opening post reasonably interesting, got the point after reading twice & can't say I saw any bias in it at all. Germany was praised but it didn't seem anti-British, was just stating facts as seen from outside both.
The unexpected Brexit vote was a shock and has caused insecurity but we'll manage and everything will settle down eventually. We've weathered war and recessions, we'll get through this.

Actually it was just a link and an extract from the BBC article. There was no need for anyone to get offended or get all uppity about UK vs India and all that.

There is lot that can be discussed on these subjects....but then, people seem to prefer discussions of four letter words and pancakes!

[Robbie]

I haven't seen anything to complain about in your posts. After reading this thread I looked at a few in case I'd missed something. However people have different perspectives.
As for Britain or more precisely the UK, I haven't lived anywhere else,like it here and wouldn't emigrate. Also like being European and would be pleased for that to continue. People who have settled here from other countries are welcome as far as I'm concerned, they make life more interesting.

We don't own the country we are born in, nationalism is stupid to me. Pre-referendum campaigns (UKRAP)stirred nationalsim up which is unpleasant. About time we looked around and realised how lucky we are. Always room for improvement but we can work on that.

[Aruntraveller]

Lots of people have a problem with me. One, that I am in India, second that I am a Hindu, third that I advocate secular spirituality, fourth I also write significantly about science topics and (horror of horrors!) I actually try to integrate spirituality and science.... and even call spirituality a Science!! 

I have tolerated it for more than 17 years from the BBC boards. Some more years will not hurt.

I am not going to change, so get used to it!   

I don't think lots of people have a problem with you. I think they have a problem with things you post which is an entirely different matter. A prime example of that is actually in your post, calling spirituality a science. Which to me is a nonsense - but maybe that is for another thread.

As to your last comment - if you are not going to change - then you have to accept that some other posters on this board are not going to change either - so get used to that.  (Pointless smiley face thingie)

[Sriram]

I haven't seen anything to complain about in your posts. After reading this thread I looked at a few in case I'd missed something. However people have different perspectives.
As for Britain or more precisely the UK, I haven't lived anywhere else,like it here and wouldn't emigrate. Also like being European and would be pleased for that to continue. People who have settled here from other countries are welcome as far as I'm concerned, they make life more interesting.

We don't own the country we are born in, nationalism is stupid to me. Pre-referendum campaigns (UKRAP)stirred nationalsim up which is unpleasant. About time we looked around and realised how lucky we are. Always room for improvement but we can work on that.

Thanks Robinson! I appreciate that! 

[Udayana]

Actually it was just a link and an extract from the BBC article. There was no need for anyone to get offended or get all uppity about UK vs India and all that.

There is lot that can be discussed on these subjects....but then, people seem to prefer discussions of four letter words and pancakes!

You have not added anything to the "debate" yourself.

HH responded perfectly reasonably to the OP. As there wasn't really anything very surprising in the article and you didn't give any views of your own he asked a simple question - which you took as an affront.

Obviously there are aspects of Brexit and citizenship/residence that can be discussed, but the discussion was mainly in the HoL yesterday and passed back to May and the Commons.