German Brits

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Fair? Like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/26/grandmother-deported-from-uk-despite-being-married-to-briton-for-27-years

I can see why families like Humph's are concerned. I have no faith that this won't happen to EU nationals who have married British citizens too, let alone EU families who have made the UK their home.

I think that the lady in question was singled out for harsh treatment as part of a quota. The Home Office do I understand have a "One in Ten" policy whereby one passport application in ten gets the full checks, the other nine receive just routine checks.

It was a nasty thing to do, what disconcerts me the most is that some seem to revel in it. It's not as if she was doing any harm.

[Bubbles]

Lots of people have a problem with me. One, that I am in India, second that I am a Hindu, third that I advocate secular spirituality, fourth I also write significantly about science topics and (horror of horrors!) I actually try to integrate spirituality and science.... and even call spirituality a Science!! 

I have tolerated it for more than 17 years from the BBC boards. Some more years will not hurt.

I am not going to change, so get used to it!   

🙂💐

You bring a different perspective to the forum

[Bubbles]

Fair? Like this?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/26/grandmother-deported-from-uk-despite-being-married-to-briton-for-27-years

I can see why families like Humph's are concerned. I have no faith that this won't happen to EU nationals who have married British citizens too, let alone EU families who have made the UK their home.

It's not relevant, the woman came from Singapore not the EU. Singapore is not in the EU,Brexit has no bearing on this at all.

No, it's not fair but it's irrelevant.

It's just scaremongering.

The woman was deported under rules for outside the EU.

[Bubbles]

Hello again Ippy.

I hold a British Passport.

My wife holds a Romanian Passport

Our kids hold British Passports (so fuck Ukip/BNP)

Now do you understand why this is not a laughing matter?

Can your wife apply for a British passport?

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen/if-your-spouse-is-a-british-citizen

Then you would all hold a British passport.
It might address some concerns.
🙂

[ippy]

I didn't need to look, Ippy, it's headline news.

I agree it's no reason to overturn the referendum result - its too late for that. It's a shabby reflection on this country though and in all likelihood a taste of what the Brexiters have voted in.

We obviously don't agree about the brilliant result of the referendum and that's not likely to change, going by the tone of your reply.

Incidentally I voted against in the original entry into then EEC referendum too, the one when Wilson was the PM.

I didn't get any other chance to vote for any of the sly creeping measures that drew us further and further into the now EU.

ippy

[Rhiannon]

It's not relevant, the woman came from Singapore not the EU. Singapore is not in the EU,Brexit has no bearing on this at all.

No, it's not fair but it's irrelevant.

It's just scaremongering.

The woman was deported under rules for outside the EU.

Of course. We don't have the right to deport EU citizens.

It is relevant because we could decide to apply the same rules to EU citizens post Brexit. As yet we have no idea what rights of residency they will be offered but plenty who have voted for Brexit believe it means mass deportation. This and other cases like it could well be illustrating what the future will be like post Brexit for people who settled here and created a family believing that they could do so indefinitely.

[Rhiannon]

We obviously don't agree about the brilliant result of the referendum and that's not likely to change, going by the tone of your reply.

Incidentally I voted against in the original entry into then EEC referendum too, the one when Wilson was the PM.

I didn't get any other chance to vote for any of the sly creeping measures that drew us further and further into the now EU.

ippy

Some twenty years ago I was a Green Party activist back in the day when it was anti EU and especially anti Euro. What has happened since then though means the genie is too far out of the bottle for it to be put back in without being hugely destructive. It's a different world to how it was then, let alone in the 70's.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Can your wife apply for a British passport?

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen/if-your-spouse-is-a-british-citizen

Then you would all hold a British passport.
It might address some concerns.
🙂

My wife does not apply for a UK passport for the same reason that I did not apply for an American Passport.

I lived in the USA for seven years. But I was and am an Englishman (not British).

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Some twenty years ago I was a Green Party activist back in the day when it was anti EU and especially anti Euro. What has happened since then though means the genie is too far out of the bottle for it to be put back in without being hugely destructive. It's a different world to how it was then, let alone in the 70's.

Absolutely correct. We are talking about PEOPLE now, not just, maps, or flags.

[ippy]

Some twenty years ago I was a Green Party activist back in the day when it was anti EU and especially anti Euro. What has happened since then though means the genie is too far out of the bottle for it to be put back in without being hugely destructive. It's a different world to how it was then, let alone in the 70's.

We're not going to agree on this one Rhi, we are on our way out suits me, obviously not you and I doubt it'll be all sweetness and light negotiations but I think it's for the best in the long run, you don't, we'll see.

ippy 

[Udayana]

OK. So, suppose the worst of the worst were to happen and we left without a deal on the exit, let alone a trade deal. 

Would the 27 all demand that UK nationals leave their countries? Seems unlikely. Even if they did, would the UK force all remaining EU citizens to leave the UK?  There is uncertainty and fear but basic national and international law and human rights must still apply.

[Rhiannon]

OK. So, suppose the worst of the worst were to happen and we left without a deal on the exit, let alone a trade deal. 

Would the 27 all demand that UK nationals leave their countries? Seems unlikely. Even if they did, would the UK force all remaining EU citizens to leave the UK?  There is uncertainty and fear but basic national and international law and human rights must still apply.

You'd think so, but the lady from Singapore has been deported in spite of being married to a Brit, having British kids and having lived here for decades. Her right to a family life doesn't count and I fail to see why her case isn't going to be replicated post Brexit. Maybe the Government will extend rights of residency to all EU nationals who have arrived here before a certain date as an act of goodwill - they would be well advised to do so - but that isn't what a lot of Brexiters voted for and there is no compunction on the Government to do so.

[Udayana]

Yes, that is a worrying case.  It sounds as if she has been denied a fair hearing and rights by stealth, by organisations attempting to fill quotas.

[ippy]

You'd think so, but the lady from Singapore has been deported in spite of being married to a Brit, having British kids and having lived here for decades. Her right to a family life doesn't count and I fail to see why her case isn't going to be replicated post Brexit. Maybe the Government will extend rights of residency to all EU nationals who have arrived here before a certain date as an act of goodwill - they would be well advised to do so - but that isn't what a lot of Brexiters voted for and there is no compunction on the Government to do so.

I know a lot of leavers and none of us are looking for any kind of vendetta against these people, on the immigration side of leaving the EU all we want is control of the numbers coming here to the U K, i. e. nothing to do with where they come from or what shade of the Dulux colour chart they represent and after that lot, do they have the skills we need, it's not that complicated, the application may well be so.

It's surprisingly hard to convey the above to lots of people, there's a large number that don't seem to be able to take it in.

ippy

[jeremyp]

It's not relevant, the woman came from Singapore not the EU. Singapore is not in the EU,Brexit has no bearing on this at all.

No, it's not fair but it's irrelevant.

It's just scaremongering.

The woman was deported under rules for outside the EU.

It's relevant because our rules for non EU citizens will apply to EU citizens too, once Brexit has gone through.

[jeremyp]

I know a lot of leavers and none of us are looking for any kind of vendetta against these people, on the immigration side of leaving the EU all we want is control of the numbers coming here to the U K

I see, it's fine that there are EU citizens in the UK, as long as you have the right to deny them from being in the UK even though that sort of thing leads to difficult cases like the woman from Singapore.

The real shame of this apart from the inhumanity is that immigration is actually good for the country and, in the scheme of our relations with other EU states is a relatively trivial  issue, but we have allowed it to hijack our political life.

[ippy]

It's relevant because our rules for non EU citizens will apply to EU citizens too, once Brexit has gone through.

Hadn't thought of that, you're right; I wouldn't want anything too harsh visited on any immigrant here or in the E U even though I still want to see a considerable reduction of the numbers of immigrants coming here to live.

ippy

[jeremyp]

I still want to see a considerable reduction of the numbers of immigrants coming here to live.

I think you'll get your wish: once the full force of Brexit thrusts the country into recession, more people will want to leave here than come in. If I was twenty years younger I'd be one of them. The Brexit vote has shown me that the country I loved is mean spirited, inward looking and lacks any kind of greater vision for the future.

[wigginhall]

I think you'll get your wish: once the full force of Brexit thrusts the country into recession, more people will want to leave here than come in. If I was twenty years younger I'd be one of them. The Brexit vote has shown me that the country I loved is mean spirited, inward looking and lacks any kind of greater vision for the future.

Some of the headbangers actually seem to feel OK about shrinking the economy, as long as immigration is reduced.   It's not just about being mean-spirited, but also poorer. 

[ippy]

Some of the headbangers actually seem to feel OK about shrinking the economy, as long as immigration is reduced.   It's not just about being mean-spirited, but also poorer.

Had the shoe been on the other foot and we had lost the vote I would have been a bad looser too.

ippy

[wigginhall]

Had the shoe been on the other foot and we had lost the vote I would have been a bad looser too.

ippy

Well, that's  one way of dodging the arguments.

[ippy]

Well, that's  one way of dodging the arguments.

We're not going to agree so what's the point, anyway these arguments were argued out at length in the run up to the referendum and we are now leaving, I doubt we'd agree right up to doomsday.

I meant what I said in that previous post, visa versa with the result I would have been out on the streets etc. and it would have been a long time before I gave it up, I feel it just as strongly as you do, only in the opposite way.   

We're not a nation known for throwing in the towel just because something is difficult, I feel relieved and optimistic about our national future, sorry you don't feel the same.

ippy 

[jeremyp]

We're not a nation known for throwing in the towel just because something is difficult

Yes we are. That is exactly what we have just done with respect to the EU.

[Bubbles]

Yes we are. That is exactly what we have just done with respect to the EU.

No we haven't, we've been in it since the 1970's, people were unhappy with the effect of it.

We didn't just chuck in the towel.

People had had enough.

[Harrowby Hall]

No we haven't, we've been in it since the 1970's, people were unhappy with the effect of it.

And what effect was this, precisely?

We didn't just chuck in the towel.

People had had enough.

Enough of what?