India

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I suggested someone start a thread on India because some people were dying to say something about it.

They didn't, so I decided I'll start one myself.

India is a large country, a subcontinent,  with a population of 1.3 billion of which 1 billion are Hindus, 180 million are Muslims and the rest Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.

It has a 5000 year history starting off with the Indus Valley Civilization. Has a very  rich philosophy of Samkhya, Vedanta, Yoga besides their off shoots of Jainism and Buddhism.

We have 29 states with several languages and many more dialects. We have a rich cuisine with hundreds of varieties from different regions (not just Curry as Britishers think).

We are particularly known for Gandhi and non-violent protests, vegetarianism and Spirituality.

Just after Independence, we had a population of about 300 million people about 90% of whom were uneducated and very poor.  Today our population is 1.3 billion, with about 40% being uneducated and poor. But the process of moving forward has now gained momentum and we expect that in the next 2 decades these 500 million people will also come into the mainstream. 

From a very poor country a few decades ago, India is today the fastest growing nation in the world with a growth of about 7.4 % . In terms of GDP (PPP) India is the third largest economy in the world after the US and China. 

Indians are today very successful everywhere in the world, usually prominent in the IT and financial sectors.

India has been a little slow in its growth compared to China largely because of its democratic (chaotic) processes. But we have managed all the same.

Gosh!! I love India and am very proud of it! I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world.

Well...That's it! 

Now you guys can start off with the poverty, slums, corruption, rape, caste and perhaps even Sati.

Cheers.

Sriram 

[Aruntraveller]

Well I'm not going to knock India.

I have visited India 4 times and spent some 6 months there in 85-6 and I love the place and it's people. (not all of them obviously - I don't like all of them anywhere!) but I found the people friendly and welcoming if a little too fond of touching my very blond (at the time) hair.

It has it's problems as you allude to - but it is pointless to measure my own country against other countries as you are always looking at an almost infinite number of baselines in terms of economic, historical and social factors; which are impossible to compare.

Celebrate the difference is my motto why on earth would I want to visit a country exactly the same as my own?

Not, I might add, that there is anything more wrong with the UK than anywhere else in the world - and in fact a lot of things actually more right with it - but I like to see different places.

[Gordon]

Don't know why you think people here are anti-India, Sriram.

I'd love to visit and everyone I know who has been there have found the experience interesting: there are differences of course, and some things may be challenging from the perspective of a visitor - but the same applies everywhere: I certainly found some aspects of the USA subjectively challenging (the fixation with guns, their almost child-like take on religion, what passes for 'comedy', some of their sport etc).

[Udayana]

...
Gosh!! I love India and am very proud of it! I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world.
...

Doesn't everyone? There is programme on TV here, "The Real Marigold Hotel" following up in the idea from the film....

It does show the best aspects, and may well encourage groups of wrinklies taking up residence in Kerala, taking advantage of low cost of living and good healthcare

[Robbie]

India is wonderful. Agree with every word Trantvoyager said.

[Maeght]

Hi everyone,

I suggested someone start a thread on India because some people were dying to say something about it.

They didn't, so I decided I'll start one myself.

India is a large country, a subcontinent,  with a population of 1.3 billion of which 1 billion are Hindus, 180 million are Muslims and the rest Christians, Jains, Sikhs etc.

It has a 5000 year history starting off with the India Valley Civilization. Has a very  rich philosophy of Samkhya, Vedanta, Yoga besides their off shoots of Jainism and Buddhism.

We have 29 states with several languages and many more dialects. We have a rich cuisine with hundreds of varieties from different regions (not just Curry as Britishers think).

We are particularly known for Gandhi and non-violent protests, vegetarianism and Spirituality.

Just after Independence, we had a population of about 300 million people about 90% of whom were uneducated and very poor.  Today our population is 1.3 billion, with about 40% being uneducated and poor. But the process of moving forward has now gained momentum and we expect that in the next 2 decades these 500 million people will also come into the mainstream. 

From a very poor country a few decades ago, India is today the fastest growing nation in the world with a growth of about 7.4 % . In terms of GDP (PPP) India is the third largest economy in the world after the US and China. 

Indians are today very successful everywhere in the world, usually prominent in the IT and financial sectors.

India has been a little slow in its growth compared to China largely because of its democratic (chaotic) processes. But we have managed all the same.

Gosh!! I love India and am very proud of it! I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world.

Well...That's it! 

Now you guys can start off with the poverty, slums, corruption, rape, caste and perhaps even Sati.

Cheers.

Sriram

My father was stationed in India during World War II but I have no personal knowledge or experience of India so won't pass comment.

[Enki]

Well, I've been to parts of India and Nepal a couple of times. Enjoyed both visits immensely. Fascinating countries, both.

[Udayana]

My father was stationed in India during World War II but I have no personal knowledge or experience of India so won't pass comment.

I'd suggest that you have to vist

[Robbie]

It's so vast, where to start? If you go once, you want to go back.
Madras (Chennai now), is nice.
My friend comes from Goa, she and family have bought place there for holidays so their English children can appreciate some oftheir heritage.

[Aruntraveller]

It's so vast, where to start? If you go once, you want to go back.
Madras (Chennai now), is nice.
My friend comes from Goa, she and family have bought place there for holidays so their English children can appreciate some oftheir heritage.

Where to start indeed!

Goa is in some ways atypical of India - nevertheless wonderful to visit and endlessly surprising.

My favourite memory was of an old hill station in the South, Kodaikanal. We rented a little hut there for a week which looked out over a valley and distant hills, and in the early morning you looked out above the clouds and early mist. Magical.

Kolkata (Calcutta) for all its overcrowding and noise is one of the most fascinating cities I have ever visited.

[Maeght]

I'd suggest that you have to vist

Maybe one day.

[Nearly Sane]

I've been four times. Twice through work to Bangalore and Chennai, twice holiday, Rajasthan touring, and Goa. I'm back to Goa at Christmas. It is a fascinating diverse place that I've lived. Given the size and population, it is hugely complex and filled with contrasts and contradictions.

[torridon]

Been several times, having family and property in Goa, complete with well and cobras in the compound; just love travelling in India, Nepal too.  Life in the West always seems sterile and lacking in humanity when I come back.

[Rhiannon]

My best friend when I was growing up was a Hindu, born in Uganda but of Indian descent. She was an amazing friend and her family welcomed me with open arms. Every Christmas her dad would buy my parents a bottle of advocaat for Christmas. I was invited to weddings, birthdays, parties, and celebrations. My experience of Indian culture is almost solely through the family who invited me in so warmly and shared their lives and practices with me. One thing I took from it and replicated in my own spirituality is having an altar in the home. Sadly my friend's dad died in tragic circumstances and she moved abroad suddenly, and we are no longer in touch, although the last I heard she was well and happy with her own family now. I still hold a huge amount of love for her and the vibrancy of the life she shared with me, even if it was just for a few years.

[Sriram]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Its nice to know that so many of you have actually visited India some time or the other.

Of course it is  messy, over crowded, chaotic, bad roads and stuff. But we are trying hard to make it better. Things are more promising now under Modi, than before.

We are still a largely spiritual minded society...and most youngsters even today are into spiritual practices while working on their engineering, science or IT or finance or whatever. We are still a very family minded society and in most cases two to three generations live under one roof (even in very wealthy families). 

Cheers.

[Udayana]

Short but interesting piece, on earlier today on Radio 4, on the passing of India's disability law in 1995.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g7w70

[trippymonkey]

Sriram bhaiya,
you well know of my continuing relationship with India & Indians, I'm in Varanasi at the mo.

Nick

[ippy]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Its nice to know that so many of you have actually visited India some time or the other.

Of course it is  messy, over crowded, chaotic, bad roads and stuff. But we are trying hard to make it better. Things are more promising now under Modi, than before.

We are still a largely spiritual minded society...and most youngsters even today are into spiritual practices while working on their engineering, science or IT or finance or whatever. We are still a very family minded society and in most cases two to three generations live under one roof (even in very wealthy families). 

Cheers.

Don't worry too much about the superstitional/spiritual aspect of India as the educational standard rises along with being more wealthy that'll gradually drop off of the menu just as it has here in Europe. 

I suppose your enlightenment should be arriving anytime soon, that'll help.

ippy

[Sriram]

Sriram bhaiya,
you well know of my continuing relationship with India & Indians, I'm in Varanasi at the mo.

Nick

Great, Nick!  I will be visiting Varanasi too sometime next month. Have a great time. 

[Sriram]

Don't worry too much about the superstitional/spiritual aspect of India as the educational standard rises along with being more wealthy that'll gradually drop off of the menu just as it has here in Europe. 

I suppose your enlightenment should be arriving anytime soon, that'll help.

ippy

Enlightenment is ...knowing that the world is too complex to be pinned down by some science guys. That is what Indians of all generations and all levels of education have realized. 

[Robbie]

I like the spiritual atmosphere of India and don't agree with Ippy that it will decline with more education.There has been a lot of education in India for aeons which has not caused any decline in that area. India would not be India without the spiritual aspect! It's very attractive. No-one is forced to like it, they don't have to go there! However you will find much spirituality amongst British Indians living in UK of whom I know and have worked with a lot and it is an integral part of their lives. I find it beautiful.

[Sriram]

I like the spiritual atmosphere of India and don't agree with Ippy that it will decline with more education.There has been a lot of education in India for aeons which has not caused any decline in that area. India would not be India without the spiritual aspect! It's very attractive. No-one is forced to like it, they don't have to go there! However you will find much spirituality amongst British Indians living in UK of whom I know and have worked with a lot and it is an integral part of their lives. I find it beautiful.

Thanks Robinson. You are right that spirituality is an integral part of being Indian and has nothing to do with education, wealth, knowledge of science. liberal views, lifestyle etc.  Independent of all this, spirituality blooms.  And there are many who are like that in all countries.

People wrongly associate spirituality with religion, rituals, deities, temples etc.   These are the means to spiritual growth  adopted by many people. Not everyone.

Spirituality is not about supernatural things out there. It is about the inner core of our personality that drives our lives. It is about developing our own higher faculties while eliminating our base tendencies. As simple as that!


 

[torridon]

I like the spiritual atmosphere of India and don't agree with Ippy that it will decline with more education.There has been a lot of education in India for aeons which has not caused any decline in that area. India would not be India without the spiritual aspect! It's very attractive. No-one is forced to like it, they don't have to go there! However you will find much spirituality amongst British Indians living in UK of whom I know and have worked with a lot and it is an integral part of their lives. I find it beautiful.

Many westerners find the natural plurality and diversity of a polytheist society a welcome thing when visiting the East.  Atheism has become a big thing in the West and maybe that is in part funded by distaste of the divisiveness and intolerance of monotheist religion. The claim that there is just one god creates a binary dividing line between believers and non-believers with little room to accommodate shades in between.  Maybe atheism is in part driven by the intolerance of intolerance.

[Rhiannon]

Many westerners find the natural plurality and diversity of a polytheist society a welcome thing when visiting the East.  Atheism has become a big thing in the West and maybe that is in part funded by distaste of the divisiveness and intolerance of monotheist religion. The claim that there is just one god creates a binary dividing line between believers and non-believers with little room to accommodate shades in between.  Maybe atheism is in part driven by the intolerance of intolerance.

I'm going to go flying off topic here now but is Christianity really monotheistic? It seems to me (not east because of many years spent on that side of the fence) that Christians believe in a diverse range of beings that they all think of as 'God" but that behaves in different ways according to the beliefs of the individual. I know some Anglicans who believe that God is very much into the preservation of historic buildings and interior design.

[torridon]

I'm going to go flying off topic here now but is Christianity really monotheistic? It seems to me (not east because of many years spent on that side of the fence) that Christians believe in a diverse range of beings that they all think of as 'God" but that behaves in different ways according to the beliefs of the individual. I know some Anglicans who believe that God is very much into the preservation of historic buildings and interior design.

I take that point, and to my mind, it evidences the underlying truth that humans are not naturally monotheists, rather it is a cultural imposition under which the inherent diversity of human mind tries to express itself.