Author Topic: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'  (Read 2241 times)

Nearly Sane

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'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« on: March 07, 2017, 08:06:00 PM »
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 08:11:25 PM by Nearly Sane »

Jack Knave

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 08:13:51 PM »
Possibly the term animal need to be defined?

Nearly Sane

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 08:16:17 PM »
'Animals are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms of the kingdom Animalia (also called Metazoa). The animal kingdom emerged as a clade within Apoikozoa as the sister group to the choanoflagellates. Animals are motile, meaning they can move spontaneously and independently at some point in their lives. Their body plan eventually becomes fixed as they develop, although some undergo a process of metamorphosis later in their lives. All animals are heterotrophs: they must ingest other organisms or their products for sustenance.'

Jack Knave

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 08:27:16 PM »
'Animals are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms of the kingdom Animalia (also called Metazoa). The animal kingdom emerged as a clade within Apoikozoa as the sister group to the choanoflagellates. Animals are motile, meaning they can move spontaneously and independently at some point in their lives. Their body plan eventually becomes fixed as they develop, although some undergo a process of metamorphosis later in their lives. All animals are heterotrophs: they must ingest other organisms or their products for sustenance.'
With one respect that is us. But what about the mental, psychic side?

Nearly Sane

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 08:31:57 PM »
With one respect that is us. But what about the mental, psychic side?
What about it? It doesn't describe that other animals might have different capabilities.

Rhiannon

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 12:42:16 PM »
Why 'just' animals?

Nearly Sane

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 12:50:35 PM »
Why 'just' animals?
Yes, that's my issue with the begging the question. It assumes that we are somehow different and that that difference makes us better. I think Scruton's arguing from a need to believe that we are different rather than making the case.

Samuel

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 02:47:59 PM »
But we are different. We are the species sapiens, the only surviving member of the genus Homo. The survival of our own species is our prerogative, whether or not you add all the baggage that consciousness brings.

We aren't 'better' but from a selfish and evolutionary point of view we are the 'most important'

The problem is that we don't think that way. The concept of an inner spark arises when we work backwards from our self awareness and try to account for all our feelings based on our biological selves and awareness of our surroundings. Then we come up short and say 'ahhh, the secret ingredient'. The truth is that those feelings are a by product of an evolved strategy for survival that involves consciousness. That sense of self essentially dies every night when we go to sleep and is resurrected for the purpose of helping this biological entity navigate the struggles of existing in a hostile environment. That inkling of being more than the sum of our parts is spare change, its the leftover pastry we leave in the fridge because we don't know what to do with it, and where it eventually grows varied and interesting moulds - art, religion, economics, architecture, music. We look at the mould and say 'see? how wonderful... aren't we stupendously clever? aren't we special?'.

A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?

torridon

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 07:57:49 PM »
That was rather good Samuel

Jack Knave

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 08:36:53 PM »
What about it? It doesn't describe that other animals might have different capabilities.
You defined what "animal" meant and it had no reference to the mental side of things so I brought it up. So this needs to be put into the pot to try to define what we are.

Your second bit seems to be suggesting that I don't think animals have a mental or psyche side, though it is not clear what you are trying to say.

Nearly Sane

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 08:39:36 PM »
You defined what "animal" meant and it had no reference to the mental side of things so I brought it up. So this needs to be put into the pot to try to define what we are.

Your second bit seems to be suggesting that I don't think animals have a mental or psyche side, though it is not clear what you are trying to say.

You seem confused about what a definition is. It is not exhaustive about traits that all things within that definition have but those traits they share.

Udayana

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 10:01:13 PM »
Does an individual member of some species have some kind of a-priori obligation to propagate or otherwise promote that species?

I don't think so.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Jack Knave

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 07:44:18 PM »
You seem confused about what a definition is. It is not exhaustive about traits that all things within that definition have but those traits they share.
I think you are trying to over think this. Go and lie down for bit and rethink you statement, it is pretty much besides the point. Read the OP title, it might give you a clue.


Nearly Sane

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 07:49:01 PM »
I think you are trying to over think this. Go and lie down for bit and rethink you statement, it is pretty much besides the point. Read the OP title, it might give you a clue.
you are the one who asked for a definition of animal and then want it to include specific not generic traits.

Jack Knave

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Re: 'if we are not just animals, what are we?'
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 07:49:24 PM »
Does an individual member of some species have some kind of a-priori obligation to propagate or otherwise promote that species?

I don't think so.
Thinking and cogitating is what we do, we question all things, that's how we have reached the point we have in our cultural evolution.