2nd Indy Referendum?

[Gordon]

My position is that once a decision is taken, people should stick by it (at least for a reasonable time frame) and people who are unhappy with the result should just lump it and face it! Throwing tantrums like spoiled brats is not on!

We in Scotland did take a decision: we want to remain in the UK but are being dragged out by a party we didn't vote for (they have just one seat in Scotland). The UK is already broken beyond repair.

[jakswan]

The Tories have been vilified here for quite some time now, and well before Brexit, in view of their political ethos: Mrs Thatcher sealed their reputation in the eyes of many Scots, and it has been downhill ever since.

What is wrong with the Tories political ethos, I hope your not going to say something that would fitting in gutter press like 'they are for the rich'.

The SNP aren't perfect but they aren't responsible for the current Brexit calamity: that would be the Tories putting party interests before the interests of the rest of us and having it backfire spectacularly.

Parliament passed the bill with support from both sides of the house. The electorate voted for Brexit based on arguments made from leave and remain. I was on the fence I debated the issue on here and you didn't make a convincing argument to me to vote remain.

Vilification and blaming seems to be the thing to do on this forum.

[Anchorman]

Deja Vow



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39309133

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Pair Gordy......second fiddle to Ed Balls at an event no-one cares a button about, so he trots out stuff he knows niether he nor an unelectable Labour party, has a hope of getting into any legislation.
Fool me once.......

[Gordon]

What is wrong with the Tories political ethos, I hope your not going to say something that would fitting in gutter press like 'they are for the rich'.

I could mention the Poll Tax, the 'bedroom tax', what they are doing here right now with regard to Job Centre closures - plus the fact that we didn't vote for them: I'm now required by convention to note that there are more Pandas in Edinburgh Zoo than there are Tory MPs in Scotland.

Parliament passed the bill with support from both sides of the house. The electorate voted for Brexit based on arguments made from leave and remain. I was on the fence I debated the issue on here and you didn't make a convincing argument to me to vote remain.

So they did - but with no information about what it entailed so no basis to support it - up to them to make the case to Leave, else the status quo applies. However, that it happened at all was contrary to the rhetoric were we spun by a Tory PM in 2014 and where the majority of Scottish PMs voted against Brexit in Westminster.

Vilification and blaming seems to be the thing to do on this forum.

Only when it is merited.

[Jack Knave]

they are  one's she is agreeing tob ut I suspect, as you do, and I think Nicola that it won't happen. So the SNP stance is according to the UK govt details will be available, and if they are not we are willing to work on that. Now if May were to actually calk the bluff she would jyst agree to that. But she doesn't want to be seen as taking a position that Brexit will happen in those timescales because her own Brexiteers and the UKIP v1.0, or UKIP 2.0, or the People's Front of UKIP, will suddenly start calling her a traitor to the will of the people.

I don't follow your argument. It is within 2 years as per Art50. May could say that it might not be finalised by 18 months because the EP may come back and ask for some tweaks. What is wrong with that? Why would UKIP start playing up? They are more concerned with the contents than the time frame.

May doesn't want it now because she's got enough on her plate and after the deal the Scots would know what they are voting for or against.

[Jack Knave]

and as to starting from scratch it obviously goes against that.

Who said they could be fast tracked. Often the people saying these things don't have the authority to offer them within the EU machine because there are others who could insist on other things, because of the rules, and so nullify their comments.

[Jack Knave]

The problem is that the electorate was told by a Tory PM (and other unionist types) that if we wanted to be part of the EU we'd best stay part of the UK -  it is possible that some of the electorate, since we know from June last year that Scotland is pro-EU, voted against independence to safeguard EU status.

The Tories gambled to sort out their internal problems - they lost, and as a result we all lost.

But the twisted thinking in that is that the SNP want independence (plus be in the EU, which isn't independence) which would take them out of the EU and yet their reason (and manic arm waving of indignation) for pushing for Indyref2 is because they have been taken out of the EU.....insane logic.

Anyway you lot voted No in Indyref1 and got to stay in the EU; which is what you wanted. No one said it would be forever!!!

[Jack Knave]

That's not Sriram's position why are you misrepresenting what he said?

I wasn't backing up or not Sriram's position. I was attacking your bias and extreme assessment of what you think will most probably happen. The odds of a disaster are very very small.

You second point is so confused and again not what Stpriam has said that I have no clue as your point.

That is basically what he said, give or take. It is only confusing to you because you don't want to face up to reality.

[Nearly Sane]

I wasn't backing up or not Sriram's position. I was attacking your bias and extreme assessment of what you think will most probably happen. The odds of a disaster are very very small.
That is basically what he said, give or take. It is only confusing to you because you don't want to face up to reality.

Now you are misrepresenting me. At no point did I make a statement on likelihood. I suggest you read what is written rather more carefully.

[Jack Knave]

We in Scotland did take a decision: we want to remain in the UK but are being dragged out by a party we didn't vote for (they have just one seat in Scotland). The UK is already broken beyond repair.

You mean that the SNP are trying to drag you out of the UK.....? Your post isn't clear.

[Jack Knave]

Now you are misrepresenting me. At no point did I make a statement on likelihood. I suggest you read what is written rather more carefully.

So you were stating fact then? 

What you were doing was making an assertion that it would be a disaster. Unless you are God you don't know that.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't follow your argument. It is within 2 years as per Art50. May could say that it might not be finalised by 18 months because the EP may come back and ask for some tweaks. What is wrong with that? Why would UKIP start playing up? They are more concerned with the contents than the time frame.

May doesn't want it now because she's got enough on her plate and after the deal the Scots would know what they are voting for or against.

And again the use of now as you and May do is irrelevant, as no one has said Now.

[Jack Knave]

And again the use of now as you and May do is irrelevant, as no one has said Now.

"Now" means in this context before the Brexit deal is ratified....ok?

[Nearly Sane]

"Now" means in this context before the Brexit deal is ratified....ok?

So now means an undefined time in the future? When you have worked out your new dictionary that  you seem to be making up as you go along, get back to me. Otherwise discussion is pointless.

[Walter]

We in Scotland did take a decision: we want to remain in the UK but are being dragged out by a party we didn't vote for (they have just one seat in Scotland). The UK is already broken beyond repair.

Scotland: England's biggest county   

[Nearly Sane]

Scotland: England's biggest county   

obvious wum is obvious

[Jack Knave]

So now means an undefined time in the future? When you have worked out your new dictionary that  you seem to be making up as you go along, get back to me. Otherwise discussion is pointless.

What didn't you understand about my last post. No Indyref2 until after the Brexit deal is ratified. How hard is that?

[Jack Knave]

obvious wum is obvious

His name should be Wumter.

[Nearly Sane]

What didn't you understand about my last post. No Indyref2 until after the Brexit deal is ratified. How hard is that?

understand all of it.  But it's a specious use of the word now, and it isn't May's position.

[jeremyp]

We in Scotland did take a decision: we want to remain in the UK but are being dragged out by a party we didn't vote for (they have just one seat in Scotland). The UK is already broken beyond repair.

The Tories are not dragging you out of the UK.

[Nearly Sane]

The Tories are not dragging you out of the UK.

Wild punt here? Typo.

[jeremyp]

Some points that seem fairly obvious to me

Scotland cannot leave the UK before the UK leaves the EU. Even if Scotland voted to leave the UK tomorrow, there would still have to be a negotiation similar to the negotiation we haven't quite started yet with the EU. There's no way the UK government is going to even consider negotiating Scottish independence before we're done with the EU, it would be too much to handle at once.

Theresa May will never let the Scots have independence while she is prime minister. Conservatives are pretty much all unionists. To go against that will make her career toast.

If Brexit goes ahead, I think eventual Scottish independence is inevitable. It's just another way in which the Brexiteers have kicked us all in the goolies.

[Walter]

Some points that seem fairly obvious to me

Scotland cannot leave the UK before the UK leaves the EU. Even if Scotland voted to leave the UK tomorrow, there would still have to be a negotiation similar to the negotiation we haven't quite started yet with the EU. There's no way the UK government is going to even consider negotiating Scottish independence before we're done with the EU, it would be too much to handle at once.

Theresa May will never let the Scots have independence while she is prime minister. Conservatives are pretty much all unionists. To go against that will make her career toast.

If Brexit goes ahead, I think eventual Scottish independence is inevitable. It's just another way in which the Brexiteers have kicked us all in the goolies.

I hope it hurts old chap

[Nearly Sane]

Some points that seem fairly obvious to me

Scotland cannot leave the UK before the UK leaves the EU. Even if Scotland voted to leave the UK tomorrow, there would still have to be a negotiation similar to the negotiation we haven't quite started yet with the EU. There's no way the UK government is going to even consider negotiating Scottish independence before we're done with the EU, it would be too much to handle at once.

Theresa May will never let the Scots have independence while she is prime minister. Conservatives are pretty much all unionists. To go against that will make her career toast.

If Brexit goes ahead, I think eventual Scottish independence is inevitable. It's just another way in which the Brexiteers have kicked us all in the goolies.

Mostly I agree but Nicola had offered discussions about leavingthe EU and staying in UK,  turned down, offers to discuss the timing of this referendum, turned down. It creates a narrative that plays well.

[jeremyp]

I hope it hurts old chap

Really? You want Brexit to hurt everybody?