2nd Indy Referendum?

[Anchorman]

Business as usual! https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/the-u-turn-that-wasnt/

[Nearly Sane]

It's quite odd, in part because it has been the recess and school holidays, but in part because currently no one knows anything, not only has indyref2 slipped off the agenda but politics in Scotland has sort of stopped. We are in a time of navelgazing and Trumpwatching

[Anchorman]

Here we go again! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44188668

[Nearly Sane]

I really hope not

[SteveH]

I really hope so. Ihope they become independent and stay in, or re-join, the EU. It'd be worth moving to Scotland if that happened.

[Rhiannon]

I really hope so. Ihope they become independent and stay in, or re-join, the EU. It'd be worth moving to Scotland if that happened.

They’ll have a juicy immigration policy to stop you doing that.

[Anchorman]

They’ll have a juicy immigration policy to stop you doing that.

Actually, no.
As far as I understand current SNP and Green thinking (Both parties are indy minded) Immigration would be less restrictive than it is under Tory thinking now.
For what it's worth, I think this is the start of the debate toward a second referendum, and is aimed mainly at putting pressure on Westminster to devolve the powers due Scotand from Brussels, and perhaps wring a few more out of them.
Of course I favour Indyref 2...but I want it AFTER the shambles of Brexit shows how disasterous the exit from the EU really is for the Scots economy.

[Harrowby Hall]

..but I want it AFTER the shambles of Brexit shows how disasterous the exit from the EU really is for the Scots economy.

..but I want it AFTER the shambles of Brexit shows how disastrous the exit from the EU really is for the whole UK economy.

[jeremyp]

I really hope so. Ihope they become independent and stay in, or re-join, the EU. It'd be worth moving to Scotland if that happened.

They wouldn’t have to let you in. We’ll have a hard border with the EU.

[SteveH]

They wouldn’t have to let you in. We’ll have a hard border with the EU.

'Twas just a vague thought. I wouldn't actually move.

[Nearly Sane]

So next year then? Presumably before Salmond's trial




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036176

[Anchorman]

So next year then? Presumably before Salmond's trial




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036176

   


Depends if we can wring a section 30 order out of Westminster.
Oh, and I'd probably vote for Henry McLeish to be convenor of a new YES campaign.

[Udayana]

So .. will a "deal" with the RoUK be arranged before an independence vote or will there have to be a 3rd referendum on the exact manner of leaving, or will Scotland leaving be dependent on rejoining the EU at the same time?

Or something else?

[jeremyp]

So next year then? Presumably before Salmond's trial




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036176

I can't see BoJo agreeing to an a Scottish Independence referendum.

[Nearly Sane]

I can't see BoJo agreeing to an a Scottish Independence referendum.

Neither can I but not sure where we will be by then, and who or why decisions will be made. A lot of this is mood music for supporters, then is a substantial group pushing for ignoring WM approval, and a lot of positioning is going on as regards the next leader of the SNP. There is a lot of talk about the trial being likely to result in Sturgeon's resignation.

[Nearly Sane]

The procedural hearing on the trial is next month, and talk is that the case will be heard early next year, given the possible results, any idea that there is anything definite about even calling for a referendum is incorrect.


https://stv.tv/news/politics/1441749-alex-salmond-s-criminal-court-case-to-call-this-month/

[Udayana]

I haven't got my head around why Salmond's case decides whether Scotland has another referendum?

[Nearly Sane]

I haven't got my head around why Salmond's case decides whether Scotland has another referendum?

Not so much 'can as will. Firstly independence is still closely associated with Salmond. If he were to be found guilty, it's going to have an effect on the support for it, even if that isn't for rational reasons. but then rationality isn't that big in voting.
Secondly there is a split in the SNP about how to approach the next referendum. The part that is most closely associated with Salmond is also that which is pushing hardest for a referendum. A guilty verdict on any of the charges will push more power to the gradualists.
Thirdly, there is a belief that the process of the initial investigation by the Scottish govt, already demonstrably flawed as shown by having to pay Salmond's cost when he sued them, may also in terms of what is revealed by the court as to who knew what when, show that Sturgeon behaved incorrectly - this may well lead to her having to step down. And that's even if Salmond is found guilty. This is turn will lead to a battle in the SNP between the already mentioned factions which unlike the last few leadership elections is likely to be very damaging.


In order to get a referendum, I think the SNP and the independence movement as a whole will have to be united in thinking that a win is close. Most of the results of the trial will damage the reputation in some way, and it will be a media circus in which even the best outcomes will have distracted the party and the people.

[Udayana]

Thanks.

[Anchorman]

Today's offering from the Dug.
It's not all about money.
Alba gu brath.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/10/24/the-saltire-strikes-back/

[Nearly Sane]

Today's offering from the Dug.
It's not all about money.
Alba gu brath.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/10/24/the-saltire-strikes-back/

I find that sort of argument puts me off independence. It feels like a mountain of chips. This whole idea that somehow Scots, and in the end it is only people that matter, not land, not poetry, not flags, have individually benefitted but that there is some mystical purity that is maintained is way too blood and sand for me.

[Anchorman]

I find that sort of argument puts me off independence. It feels like a mountain of chips. This whole idea that somehow Scots, and in the end it is only people that matter, not land, not poetry, not flags, have individually benefitted but that there is some mystical purity that is maintained is way too blood and sand for me.

   




We used to call it the 'Bannockburner' strand of SNP thought, es espoused by Gordon Wilson, Compton Mackenzie, Wendy Wood, etc. Yes, it sounds a bit mystic, but nevertheless it is a strand of argument which has its' place.
Incidentally, I like the reference to Ian Hamilton; he hasn't changed one bit in all the years I've known him.

[Nearly Sane]

Of course having said that I have often used the phrase 'Je ne suis pas anglais, je suis ecossais' and similar when abroad.  But that's a selfish calculation rather than a heartfelt declaration.

[Nearly Sane]

And, of course the real Stone of Destiny is in the Arlington Bar.

[Anchorman]

The lesser known nicking of the sword attributed to Wallace from the Wallace monument has a connection to my town. No- it wisny me; I was six at the time it vanished for the second time. It spent three weeks hidden in a lum of a council house not a hundred yards from my gaffe.