The Eucharist and Communion

[Robbie]

Sam Harris does a good one on you tube, he compares the Eucharist with eating a few cream crackers and expecting to see Elvis.
ippy

That really is hurtful to people who like going to communion & believe it has some significance tho neverheard of anyone expecting tosee someone. I'd have thought better of someone with Sam Harris's intellect.

[SusanDoris]

That really is hurtful to people who like going to communion & believe it has some significance tho neverheard of anyone expecting tosee someone. I'd have thought better of someone with Sam Harris's intellect.

If someone is hurt by something like that, then they have a problem, not Sam Harris.
 

[Robbie]

I don't say they'd make a song and dance about it Susan, theyd probably swallow it, but it is unkind.I don't care about communion but know people who od in different ways, that remark was stupid and insensitive.

[SusanDoris]

I don't say they'd make a song and dance about it Susan, theyd probably swallow it, but it is unkind.I don't care about communion but know people who od in different ways, that remark was stupid and insensitive.

Stupid? Why? If you are talking about the Sam Harris comment, ? The analogy works, I think. Whether communicants believe in transubstantiation or see it as a symbol, they are told it is 'the body and blood of Christ'. I was a communicant in the CofE for many years - I just wish I had had the irrationality of it pointed out to me at an earlier stage in my life.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Maybe Sam should be on the stage?

Is that a gun in his pocket or is he just pleased to see us?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If someone is hurt by something like that, then they have a problem, not Sam Harris.
 

Yes what's a bit of shit stirring between friends?

[Robbie]

Stupid? Why? If you are talking about the Sam Harris comment, ? The analogy works, I think. Whether communicants believe in transubstantiation or see it as a symbol, they are told it is 'the body and blood of Christ'. I was a communicant in the CofE for many years - I just wish I had had the irrationality of it pointed out to me at an earlier stage in my life.

It is stupid and immature to talk insensitively about things which are dear to others, especially when the person saying it isn't bothered by it. Your opinions changed over time, that's fine& happens to lot of us but it didn't killyou when you were a communicant.

There's a lot more to life than religion &strikes me that many with no religious beliefs are more obsessed with it and its details than those who do have faith. Most people with religious beliefs are quite moderate too.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Sam Harris does a good one on you tube, he compares the Eucharist with eating a few cream crackers and expecting to see Elvis.

ippy

That means nothing to me, we don't use cream crackers.

[Anchorman]

HWB: Different tradition, I know - but I've taken part in communions where the bread is white, brown, leavened, unleavened, crackers, wafer - whatever. Equally I have partaken of 'wine' which is alcoholic, or non-alcoholic (as we had several recovering alcoholics with us and wanted them included in the sacrament), or even, on a very memorable occasion when commemorating an illegal conventicle at Airdsmoss, whisky. I enjoyed that.... Seriously, though, since my tradition rejects transubstantiation, the actual ingredients of the elements don't matter. The nature of the act itself in whatever setting, however, is always sacred.

[Robbie]

That means nothing to me, we don't use cream crackers.

Quite and you didn't expect to 'see' Elvis or anyone else, did you. That was a ridiculous thing to suggest.

Anchorman, not only are you in communion with Christ you are in communion with everyone else who is receiving communion and that is a sacred moment which is quite beautiful.

[wigginhall]

I never really thrill to Harris's writing, but I doubt if people are going to be hurt by such wild comparisons, are they?   

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see anything particularly interesting in Harris's comment, nor do I see why that it might offend some is important. I know people who will get offended if you disagree with their favourite Doctor Who.

[Robbie]

I don't know anyone who would be hurt or offendedby criticism of Dr Who but if I did, I'd be careful what I said.

I give up! Obviously didn't get my point across but it's a question of empathy. Beginning to udnerstand how Ippy feels.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't know anyone who would be hurt or offendedby criticism of Dr Who but if I did, I'd be careful what I said.

I give up! Obviously didn't get my point across but it's a question of empathy. Beginning to udnerstand how Ippy feels.

But you surely don't believe that anything anyone cares about needs to be treated with some form of undefined respect simply because it is important to them?

[Robbie]

Yes I do.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes I do.

so, if someone believes in FGM and it might upset them, then I shouldn't mention it?

[SusanDoris]

One of the reasons that religious beliefs have held such power for so long is that (a) not enough people have been able to get together to point out the total lack of evidence for any god/god/s, (b) the total lack of logic for any such god, and (c) too many -people have tip-toed around the subject instead of facing believers more strongly to request them to make a valid case for the gods/spirits they believe exist.
Obviously, in everyday life I do not daily challenge every believer I know, but simply live as positively as I do. Those who know me know that I am an atheist. However, on a message board like this the subject can be discussed by all.

[wigginhall]

Elvis and cream crackers is a poor analogy with the eucharist, because as far as I know, Elvis didn't ask people to commemorate him via eating cream crackers, and there are no stories that he did.   Second, Elvis followers don't, again as far as I know, get together to eat cream crackers in his memory.   Third, eating cream crackers doesn't really connect with a historic tradition, whereas the eucharist does, for example, with the Passover meal. 

Still, I suppose it's not meant to be that kind of analogy, but rather, 'look how stupid X is, if I compare it with something stupid'.

[ippy]

Maybe Sam should be on the stage?

If you haven't already seen it it's worth a watch NS, I've simplified my description of his words and it is worth a look and listen to the words coming from the man himself.

ippy

[Nearly Sane]

If you haven't already seen it it's worth a watch NS, I've simplified my description of his words and it is worth a look and listen to the words coming from the man himself.

ippy

Perhaps you could post a link?

I have to say I was disappointed Vlad went for an attempt to be 'original' in his reply when I had set him up for his traditional 'much loved' line.

[Robbie]

so, if someone believes in FGM and it might upset them, then I shouldn't mention it?

What does FGM have to do with the eucharist?  You are barrel scraping, deliberately too and have no respect.
I'm off.

[Nearly Sane]

What does FGM have to do with the eucharist?  You are barrel scraping, deliberately too and have no respect.
I'm off.

Your principle was that things that people hold deeply then you should show respect for. I used the FGM example because if you don't think it applies for that, then you gave some other evaluation about what should be respected.

[SusanDoris]

What does FGM have to do with the eucharist?  You are barrel scraping, deliberately too and have no respect.
I'm off.

For what do you think NS has 'no respect'? do you think religious beliefs should be respected? If so,
why is that?

[Nearly Sane]

For what do you think NS has 'no respect'? do you think religious beliefs should be respected? If so,
why is that?

Not sure it is Robinson's position that 'religious beliefs' need to be respected, as she stated it should be extended to people's opinions on the best Doctor Who. I don't really know what the position is, which is what I have been seeking to clarify.

[ippy]

Perhaps you could post a link?

I have to say I was disappointed Vlad went for an attempt to be 'original' in his reply when I had set him up for his traditional 'much loved' line.

N S, go to YouTube and enter, Sam Harris- "The Elvis Analogy".

Regards ippy