Lost for words

[Nearly Sane]

You are wrong in your assumption about them not lasting a long time, some would still be around today, no doubt, if they hadn't had their marching orders!

It should be noted that people are not banned because they say people are going to burn in hell.

[floo]

It should be noted that people are not banned because they say people are going to burn in hell.

True. However that crazy garbage can affect their behaviour as many of them believe in the 'once 'saved' always saved' mantra, they reckon they will go to heaven however bad they are thereafter. In real life I have known several people who thought like that, it didn't make them nice to know that is for sure.

[Robbie]

Forums are not real life. Posters say a lot of horrible things that they wouldn't say in person. I believe what you say about some posters on here being like that but they must be few and far between.

[floo]

Forums are not real life. Posters say a lot of horrible things that they wouldn't say in person. I believe what you say about some posters on here being like that but they must be few and far between.

Robinson if you had been on this forum since its inception in 2011 you might have a different view.

Many of us used to post on the BBC forum,; this one was started when closure was looming.

[Robbie]

I know floo but they cannot all be here now & we have to live in the here and now.
A forum I joined briefly years ago was difficult for me, it no longer exists and was an off shoot of Charisma magazine. There were endless sermons written by one person whose name I;forget now, held in high esteem. Most posters were American & i hadn'tcome across people like that. I didn't post much and then faded away.

(One thing that was funny when i joined was people kept talking about vets,that they were vets or had family who were vets & i thought there must be an American Crhristian Veterinarian Association to which they belonged. Didn'tcotton on until later they meant military veterans.)

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think we have any of those who seem to enjoy tales of burning forever on the board. I don't think we have ever had that many. And on the BBC, it was harsher modding so i don't think much was allowed.


Anyway, gender reassignment!!!  Ad_o wants people treated by psychiatric means (which of course gender reassignment involves) but no gender reassignment at, even less on the NHs and unimaginably much less the NHS in prison. Any others have thoughts?

[floo]

I don't think we have any of those who seem to enjoy tales of burning forever on the board. I don't think we have ever had that many. And on the BBC, it was harsher modding so i don't think much was allowed.


Anyway, gender reassignment!!!  Ad_o wants people treated by psychiatric means (which of course gender reassignment involves) but no gender reassignment at, even less on the NHs and unimaginably much less the NHS in prison. Any others have thoughts?

We certainly have had posters who threatened others with burning in hell! They seemed to take pleasure at the prospect.

[Nearly Sane]

We certainly have had posters who threatened others with burning in hell! They seemed to take pleasure at the prospect.

Didn't say there had been none so irrelevant.

Doubly so to gender reassignment. What are your thoughts on that?

[floo]

One poster who is still posts on this forum, from time to time, takes a delight in condemning me to a nasty hell!

If a person genuinely feel they are born into the wrong body, they shouldn't be condemned for wishing to have a gender reassignment.

[Nearly Sane]

One poster who is still posts on this forum, from time to time, takes a delight in condemning me to a nasty hell!

If a person genuinely feel they are born into the wrong body, they shouldn't be condemned for wishing to have a gender reassignment.

I don't think anyone has stated that they want to condemn anyone, the question is what to do about it? Do we support gender reassignment? Do you think it should take place on the NHS? Do you think prisoners should be able to have gender reassignment paid for on the NHS? Does it matter what they were convicted of?

[wigginhall]

I don't think we have any of those who seem to enjoy tales of burning forever on the board. I don't think we have ever had that many. And on the BBC, it was harsher modding so i don't think much was allowed.


Anyway, gender reassignment!!!  Ad_o wants people treated by psychiatric means (which of course gender reassignment involves) but no gender reassignment at, even less on the NHs and unimaginably much less the NHS in prison. Any others have thoughts?

His position seems contradictory.   He approves of psychiatric treatment, but only if the psychiatrists agree with him.   I think gender clinics are usually staffed by psychiatrists, along with others, and they seem to agree that transitioning offers a good outcome for some people, and by that, they mean reduced depression and suicidal thoughts.    But not all people will be offered hormone blocking and/or surgery, and there is often a 'wait and watch' strategy.   

But then ad-O's objections seem to be moral and religious, so somehow trans people should be re-educated?   

[floo]

I don't think anyone has stated that they want to condemn anyone, the question is what to do about it? Do we support gender reassignment? Do you think it should take place on the NHS? Do you think prisoners should be able to have gender reassignment paid for on the NHS? Does it matter what they were convicted of?

I don't think it should take place on the NHS as it is strapped for cash at present.

[Nearly Sane]

His position seems contradictory.   He approves of psychiatric treatment, but only if the psychiatrists agree with him.   I think gender clinics are usually staffed by psychiatrists, along with others, and they seem to agree that transitioning offers a good outcome for some people, and by that, they mean reduced depression and suicidal thoughts.    But not all people will be offered hormone blocking and/or surgery, and there is often a 'wait and watch' strategy.   

But then ad-O's objections seem to be moral and religious, so somehow trans people should be re-educated?

To be fair to ad_o, he seems to be approaching it that all gender reassignment is a risk involving physical treatment that is not 'necessary'. So his idea would be, we are born physically the way we are and we apply certain definitions of functionally fine. If someone felt that at 2 legs, they had been born with one leg 'too many' we would almost certainly not approve of 'legectomy' on the NHS.

Having asked him what sort of psychiatric help, he means, without an answer I would be guessing but to make the leg issue more likely, I think he is arguing that this is a form of body dysmorphia similar to anorexia.

Also I see we have two cases of those having gone through gender reassignment subsequently thinking it was a mistake. I think ad_o would make the further point here that certainty on this, I.e. it was the 'right' thing is impossible so all such physical intervention is 'unnecessary'.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think it should take place on the NHS as it is strapped for cash at present.

So in the cases in the OP, you and ad_o agree that it shouldn't happen? Or could a prisoner paying for it out of their own money be allowed to? And if so, which prison should they be in? And does it matter what they were convicted of?

[wigginhall]

I think doctors and gender clinics see a very wide range of people with gender discomfort and distress, and many people like this will not go on to transitioning.   However, some people experience intense distress, which can lead to suicide.   The NHS is duty bound to alleviate this, isn't it?   By all accounts, transitioning works for many people, that is, their distress is reduced a lot. 

[floo]

So in the cases in the OP, you and ad_o agree that it shouldn't happen? Or could a prisoner paying for it out of their own money be allowed to? And if so, which prison should they be in? And does it matter what they were convicted of?

They should not be permitted to have gender assignment whilst serving a sentence in prison, for whatever reason. As I said I don't think anyone should get it on the NHS whilst it is so strapped for cash.

[Nearly Sane]

They should not be permitted to have gender assignment whilst serving a sentence in prison, for whatever reason. As I said I don't think anyone should get it on the NHS whilst it is so strapped for cash.

Even if they pay for it? And even if doctors thinkit makes them likely to commit suicide?  So your position is that people outside of prison can pay for gender assignment but no one else can have it, even if their doctors think it would stop suicide?

[floo]

Even if they pay for it? And even if doctors thinkit makes them likely to commit suicide?  So your position is that people outside of prison can pay for gender assignment but no one else can have it, even if their doctors think it would stop suicide?

If a prisoner wishes to commit suicide, that is one less baddy in the world.

[wigginhall]

You might as well say that dyslexia shouldn't be treated on the NHS, or for that matter, depression, anxiety, and so on.   

[ad_orientem]

To be fair to ad_o, he seems to be approaching it that all gender reassignment is a risk involving physical treatment that is not 'necessary'. So his idea would be, we are born physically the way we are and we apply certain definitions of functionally fine. If someone felt that at 2 legs, they had been born with one leg 'too many' we would almost certainly not approve of 'legectomy' on the NHS.

Having asked him what sort of psychiatric help, he means, without an answer I would be guessing but to make the leg issue more likely, I think he is arguing that this is a form of body dysmorphia similar to anorexia.

Also I see we have two cases of those having gone through gender reassignment subsequently thinking it was a mistake. I think ad_o would make the further point here that certainty on this, I.e. it was the 'right' thing is impossible so all such physical intervention is 'unnecessary'.

In a nut shell!

[Nearly Sane]

If a prisoner wishes to commit suicide, that is one less baddy in the world.

I note the avoidance of the question and the bleak view that if someone is in prison for not paying their TV licence, you seem to rejoice in their death

[floo]

You might as well say that dyslexia shouldn't be treated on the NHS, or for that matter, depression, anxiety, and so on.

Is dyslexia on the NHS. My daughter and grandson have it, they certainly haven't received treatment for it.

[floo]

I note the avoidance of the question and the bleak view that if someone is in prison for not paying their TV licence, you seem to rejoice in their death

Do you go to prison for not paying your TV licence? I doubt it!

[wigginhall]

Is dyslexia on the NHS. My daughter and grandson have it, they certainly haven't received treatment for it.

Sorry, I meant anorexia.   

[Nearly Sane]

Do you go to prison for not paying your TV licence? I doubt it!

Then you would be wrong. But why would you care, you think such people's suicide would be fine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/29/bbc-licence-fee_n_4163939.html