Author Topic: Was Jesus a prophet?  (Read 16755 times)

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 01:22:44 PM »
We use the term 'prophet' to denote someone who does some mystic Meg stuff - but it meant a lot more than that in the OT. Some prophets, like Jeremiah or Ezekiel did indeed have a gift of writing down what God had in store. Others basically showed a mirror to society in general, and the nation's leaders in particular, making a stand where the felt the standards had slipped - at the cost of their income, safety and sometimes their lives. So, in the OT sense of the word, yes, Jesus was a prophet - the ultimate prophet, being the fulfillment of God's plan. Combining the role of teacher, prophet, and His identity as God, he was, and is, the last of the prophets of Biblical vintage. Because of his actions, there were, nor will be, any more such. Some may have some gift of prophecy to some degree - or claim it - but none can really be a 'prophet' again.

Thanks for that, Anchorman. It's expanding on something I was trying to point out a few posts back, but people keep banging on as if the word only meant some kind of fortune teller. Maybe if I typed something in bold it might help: Listen you guys, 'some bloke who predicts the future is only a secondary - or even tertiary - meaning of the word 'prophet ''.

I think Khatru, who started the thread, was aware of this, drawing attention to the Muslim view, and questioning whether or not Jesus was some kind of divine personage.
Was Jesus a prophet in the Old Testament sense? Well, he's certainly referred to as such a few times in the gospels.
On the other hand (to appease the folks obsessed with fortune-telling): on the occasions on which Jesus is reported as predicting the future - did he get it right?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 04:38:25 PM by Dicky Underpants »
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 01:23:51 PM »
Some may have some gift of prophecy to some degree - or claim it - but none can really be a 'prophet' again.

Of course, the followers of Joseph Smith would disagree :)
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 02:14:46 PM »
Hi Gonners,

Quote
Dear Blue,

What's that fellows name, the Swedish guy ( the one who died recently ) who predicted future events using data, was he a kind of a prophet 

Hans Rosling, and he was only a “prophet” in the sense that he could use data to extrapolate probabilistic outcomes. The problem with claims about prophets in the sense of “people who can see into the future” is that to be legit they’d need to do so with a frequency better than just guessing. So far as I’m aware there never have been any, but you never know what tomorrow will bring…

…or do you?  ;) 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:20:21 PM by bluehillside »
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Anchorman

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 02:31:40 PM »
Of course, the followers of Joseph Smith would disagree :)


-
As would those of Russel.
However both can be easily shown to be deluded at best, and fraudulent at worst.
(Google 'Book of Abraham' if you want details - or go contact 'Ralph' on nglreturns if he's still registered, if you want an argument.....)
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 02:36:29 PM »
Anchs,

Quote
As would those of Russel.

Which "Russel"?
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Anchorman

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2017, 02:50:23 PM »
Anchs,

Which "Russel"?


CT Russel, founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society (AKA Jehovah Witnessess) and pyramidiot par excellence.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 02:53:55 PM »
Anchs,

Quote
CT Russel, founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society (AKA Jehovah Witnessess) and pyramidiot par excellence.

Oh right, thanks. For one awful moment there I thought you were going to tell us that Bertrand Russell was deluded or fraudulent!
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Anchorman

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2017, 03:06:16 PM »
Anchs,

Oh right, thanks. For one awful moment there I thought you were going to tell us that Bertrand Russell was deluded or fraudulent!

-
Eh?
When did he claim to bre either a Christian or a prophet?
(not that he isn't worth reading, mind you!)
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Gonnagle

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2017, 03:12:07 PM »
Dear Blue,

Quote
Hans Rosling, and he was only a “prophet” in the sense that he could use data to extrapolate probabilistic outcomes. The problem with claims about prophets in the sense of “people who can see into the future” is that to be legit they’d need to do so with a frequency better than just guessing. So far as I’m aware there never have been any, but you never know what tomorrow will bring…

That's the guy, who I think was a sort of prophet, but I think Jim and Dicky have a more fuller version of what it takes to be a prophet, as Dicky points out telling the future is only a second requirement, I hope he can expand a little on this.

Me I like the phrase, nothing new under the sun, many prophets were just saying, look if you down this round just remember what happened to etc etc etc.

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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2017, 03:13:30 PM »
Anchs,

Quote
Eh?
When did he claim to bre either a Christian or a prophet?
(not that he isn't worth reading, mind you!)

He didn't - I was just picking up on your Reply 28 is all. And yes, BR is certainly worth reading, here for example:

https://users.drew.edu/jlenz/whynot.html
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2017, 03:17:59 PM »
Gonners,

Quote
That's the guy, who I think was a sort of prophet, but I think Jim and Dicky have a more fuller version of what it takes to be a prophet, as Dicky points out telling the future is only a second requirement, I hope he can expand a little on this.

Me I like the phrase, nothing new under the sun, many prophets were just saying, look if you down this round just remember what happened to etc etc etc.

Well, even if you take the primary meaning there have been plenty of those for plenty of gods. Whether any of them actually were channelling the thoughts of their various gods is a different matter entirely of course but as it stands "someone who proclaims their beliefs about the divine" doesn't seem a particularly remarkable one to claim to me.
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Gonnagle

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2017, 04:00:55 PM »
Dear Blue,

Channeling the thoughts of God, I think we all have the power to channel Gods thoughts but some are more, well more in touch, able to see through all the hype, all the nonsense, people like Gandhi or Buddha, hell maybe old Confucius and certainly Our Lord.

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ippy

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2017, 03:32:22 PM »
Dear Blue,

Channeling the thoughts of God, I think we all have the power to channel Gods thoughts but some are more, well more in touch, able to see through all the hype, all the nonsense, people like Gandhi or Buddha, hell maybe old Confucius and certainly Our Lord.

Gonnagle.

We all have the power to reason, some chose not to use it, as long as they don't try to pass on their unreasoning to the next generation; please fill your boots and stay in the dark.

ippy 

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2017, 04:18:43 PM »

-
As would those of Russel.
However both can be easily shown to be deluded at best, and fraudulent at worst.
(Google 'Book of Abraham' if you want details - or go contact 'Ralph' on nglreturns if he's still registered, if you want an argument.....)

Oh, I know about the "Book of Abraham" :) Quite a hoot - especially reading the squirming attempts of Mormons to claim that Joe Smith's "translation" was authentic, after the original texts he "translated" were found and properly translated by genuine experts.
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2017, 04:29:27 PM »
Gonners,

Well, even if you take the primary meaning there have been plenty of those for plenty of gods. Whether any of them actually were channelling the thoughts of their various gods is a different matter entirely of course but as it stands "someone who proclaims their beliefs about the divine" doesn't seem a particularly remarkable one to claim to me.

That's true enough, blue, but some of the Biblical prophets expressed what would seem to be plain humane common sense in extremely powerful language:

Quote
"What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the LORD;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of he-goats.
 "When you come to appear before me,
who requires of you
this trampling of my courts?
 Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies --
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
 Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me,
I am weary of bearing them.
 When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow.
 "Come now, let us reason together,
says the LORD:"

Isaiah, chapter one.

(Note to self: careful, or you'll end up doing a Sassy)

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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2017, 04:47:01 PM »

CT Russel, founder of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society (AKA Jehovah Witnessess) and pyramidiot par excellence.

Yes, indeed. But like all sects, and indeed religions, the JWs have evolved. I don't think they say much about pyramids these days. They may even have lost some of the rabid anti-catholic fervour of their days under 'Judge' Rutherford. I suspect though, they haven't changed that much since the days of Nathan Knorr - except since the fiasco of rather strongly assertion that Armaggedon would occur before 1975 was out, they keep rather quiet about suggesting any dates for the end of the world.
I still give them kudos points for their idea of hell being simply the grave, though. That (to me)  puts them ahead of any raging fundamentalists who suggest the 'unsaved' will burn forever.
Door-to-door salesmanship seems a pretty useless way of contributing to society, though, if it only consists in selling Watchtower and Awake.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

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Anchorman

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2017, 05:43:36 PM »
Oh, I know about the "Book of Abraham" :) Quite a hoot - especially reading the squirming attempts of Mormons to claim that Joe Smith's "translation" was authentic, after the original texts he "translated" were found and properly translated by genuine experts.


-
What really impressed me was the collective squirm emanating from LDS central when the original papyrus which Smith bought from a snake oil salesman, and which the LDS claimed had been destroyed, turned up in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York - and was really a pretty inferior bog standard copy of the Book of the Dead belonging to a low ranking nobleman of the late sixth century BC.
The convoluted burach they concocted to explain Smith's obvious fraud was actually more entertaining than the 'book of Abraham' itself.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Bubbles

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2017, 08:07:33 AM »
Yes, indeed. But like all sects, and indeed religions, the JWs have evolved. I don't think they say much about pyramids these days. They may even have lost some of the rabid anti-catholic fervour of their days under 'Judge' Rutherford. I suspect though, they haven't changed that much since the days of Nathan Knorr - except since the fiasco of rather strongly assertion that Armaggedon would occur before 1975 was out, they keep rather quiet about suggesting any dates for the end of the world.
I still give them kudos points for their idea of hell being simply the grave, though. That (to me)  puts them ahead of any raging fundamentalists who suggest the 'unsaved' will burn forever.
Door-to-door salesmanship seems a pretty useless way of contributing to society, though, if it only consists in selling Watchtower and Awake.

Their books are enough to put anyone off, Janet and John stuff, with people playing with lions and lambs.

Even the pictures look like something out of the 1950's.

They might not believe in hell but they do believe in Armageddon and what I don't like is that they have to head hunt to get their immortality. Only those who have converted a lot of people get saved.
It strikes me as a religion based on fear.

Probably because I have seen people terrified by what they teach, driven to suicide actually. I suppose someone can become unbalanced with other Christian/religious teachings but at one point I had jehovahs witnesses on both my mothers and fathers side.

They also subject children to abuse when they take them from door to door, because not everyone cares if children are present when they are abusive.

It's a very controlling sect.

My uncle is one of the elders and his grown up daughter wasn't allowed to be alone with her fiancé who was also a JW and had to be escorted at all times, even while getting their flat decorated ready for when they were married.

It's very strict and controlling once you get into it, members can be excommunicated if they step out of line.

That creates fear too.

People in it are encouraged to mix with JW's and even though our JW are still in contact it does break up families as they don't join in things like Christmas.

Having all your friends as JW is controlling too, because should they chuck you out, you lose your friends too.

It's initially friendly, but it has depths which hems you in and takes over your life to the point it becomes your family.

I was quite shocked when I heard how controlling it was over dates between boys and girls even when engaged, I think there is fear in it about being criticised and getting it wrong.
Women are expected to honour and obey their husbands, literally. 
Every so often I hear something, and it makes me realise how controlling it actually is when you get right into it, how the rest of the world is viewed.

Their Kingdom Halls and isolated JW might come across as like everyone else, but looking at my uncle and aunt, when you get further in it gets a lot stricter in lots of ways.

This honouring your husband and obeying is a lot stricter than many other groups who just give it lip service.

Perhaps it's that my uncle is an elder. They are not even meant to use the internet because it's corrupting.

It's an isolating religion, where your family becomes the church.

The fastest way of getting rid of a JW is to tell them you are Catholic. It's the Pope, the statues of Mary, the cross which they see as a Pagan symbol.

My aunt and uncle won't go in another church, they always wait outside.

It's the evil crosses and idolatry that goes on in the C of E and the rest.

So funerals/weddings they wait outside


http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/things-jehovahs-witnesses-cant-do.php



« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 08:59:56 AM by Rose »

Gonnagle

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2017, 08:49:20 AM »
Dear Dicky,

Just to say, post 39 excellent, their is a lot more to these old prophets than first meets the eye, and you actually sound like someone who does read the Bible and contemplates on its words ;)

But your next post :P I thought they gave that watchtower thingy away for free or is it because I am such a big NicholasMarks fan that they give it to me for free ::)

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Anchorman

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2017, 09:06:45 AM »
Their books are enough to put anyone off, Janet and John stuff, with people playing with lions and lambs.

Even the pictures look like something out of the 1950's.

They might not believe in hell but they do believe in Armageddon and what I don't like is that they have to head hunt to get their immortality. Only those who have converted a lot of people get saved.
It strikes me as a religion based on fear.

Probably because I have seen people terrified by what they teach, driven to suicide actually. I suppose someone can become unbalanced with other Christian/religious teachings but at one point I had jehovahs witnesses on both my mothers and fathers side.

They also subject children to abuse when they take them from door to door, because not everyone cares if children are present when they are abusive.

It's a very controlling sect.

My uncle is one of the elders and his grown up daughter wasn't allowed to be alone with her fiancé who was also a JW and had to be escorted at all times, even while getting their flat decorated ready for when they were married.

It's very strict and controlling once you get into it, members can be excommunicated if they step out of line.

That creates fear too.

People in it are encouraged to mix with JW's and even though our JW are still in contact it does break up families as they don't join in things like Christmas.

Having all your friends as JW is controlling too, because should they chuck you out, you lose your friends too.

It's initially friendly, but it has depths which hems you in and takes over your life to the point it becomes your family.

I was quite shocked when I heard how controlling it was over dates between boys and girls even when engaged, I think there is fear in it about being criticised and getting it wrong.
Women are expected to honour and obey their husbands, literally. 
Every so often I hear something, and it makes me realise how controlling it actually is when you get right into it, how the rest of the world is viewed.

Their Kingdom Halls and isolated JW might come across as like everyone else, but looking at my uncle and aunt, when you get further in it gets a lot stricter in lots of ways.

This honouring your husband and obeying is a lot stricter than many other groups who just give it lip service.

Perhaps it's that my uncle is an elder. They are not even meant to use the internet because it's corrupting.

It's an isolating religion, where your family becomes the church.

The fastest way of getting rid of a JW is to tell them you are Catholic. It's the Pope, the statues of Mary, the cross which they see as a Pagan symbol.

My aunt and uncle won't go in another church, they always wait outside.

It's the evil crosses and idolatry that goes on in the C of E and the rest.

So funerals/weddings they wait outside










-
Interesting that Rutherford ditched the pyramid stuff which Russel had claimed to be a 'second Bible in stone' - whilst doing a rewrite of doctrine to keep Russell's dates - calculated using the non-existant 'pyramid inch' - as his prophexies.
Leaving aside the rubbish surrounding 'Beth Sarim' ('cos ro;lling about laughing at the sheer stupidity of it is hard on the ribs), and the fraudulent mistranslation of their 'bible' - the whole 'disfellowshipping' thing is so anti-Christian that it should be an offence....
We have a lady in our church, who has been a member for nearly forty years....she joined two years after rejecting JW religion and still finding the claim of Christ to be worth pursuing.
In all those four decades, none of her family has contacted her in any way - except a cousin, and she was disciplined by the local Kingdom Hall for doing so.
She only found out about her parents' death by seeing the death notice in the local newsagents; she was even refused access to their funerals.
Whatever their attitude is, Christian it is not.
By the way, in some of their many changes in doctrine over the past century, did you know that they were once perfectly happy with birthdays, voting in elections, serving in the forces, Christmas and the Cross....all of which they now happily condemn?
Flip floppery in its' most glaring form.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2017, 04:38:52 PM »
Their books are enough to put anyone off, Janet and John stuff, with people playing with lions and lambs.

Even the pictures look like something out of the 1950's.

They might not believe in hell but they do believe in Armageddon and what I don't like is that they have to head hunt to get their immortality. Only those who have converted a lot of people get saved.
It strikes me as a religion based on fear.


http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/things-jehovahs-witnesses-cant-do.php

Rose

Your personal history is disturbing, and I know full well this sort of thing goes on in many JW congregations - indeed is specifically encouraged from the headquarters of Watchtower Inc. However, I think it does vary from community to community, and is related specifically to the personalities of the Elders who are in charge of each congregation. The group I got enticed into at the tender age of 11 (by a school friend) seemed harmless enough, and the people quite genial. By the time I was 14 I had developed enough critical intelligence to see the inconsistencies, as well as the controlling elements. Then I read "30 Years a Watchtower Slave" by William Schnell, and realised that the whole organisation was pretty dangerous, just as you say, and we continue to hear horror stories up to the present day.

Needs to be put in context, though. I don't want to say too many exculpating things, but there have been horrors associated with all kinds of Christianity throughout history, whether Trinitarian, Arian or whatever. You say the Witnesses believe in Armageddon, and this inspires fear. Well, the matter of Divine Judgment has been part of mainstream Christianity since its inception (Dies Irae etc.), and the preachers of Universal salvation have been few and far between (Julian of Norwich, Origen perhaps). So one could hardly hold that against the Witnesses. I suspect the fear other fundamentalist groups instil into children of being burned forever in Hell is a greater abuse than fear of just being condemned to die (which we do anyway).
As for the 'Janet and John' books - admittedly awful, but I've seen just the same sort of thing pulped out by a number of evangelical churches - Jesus looking like a Hollywood film-star, holding up little babies and smiling mawkishly.
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2017, 04:49:24 PM »
Dear Dicky,

Just to say, post 39 excellent, their is a lot more to these old prophets than first meets the eye, and you actually sound like someone who does read the Bible and contemplates on its words ;)

But your next post :P I thought they gave that watchtower thingy away for free or is it because I am such a big NicholasMarks fan that they give it to me for free ::)

Gonnagle.

Gonners
Never quite understood your enthusiasm for Sparky. His debt to Jehovah's Witness doctrines is in fact tenuous in the extreme, being restricted principally to one mistranslated text in Isaiah (his notorious 'dynamic energy') and apparent Arian beliefs (not that he's got a clue what the original Arians believed) - the rest he makes up as he goes along. As for his apparent predilection for the JW bible - he has yet to explain why he thinks it the 'best translation', since he appears to know bugger all of Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. I doubt if even the JWs would admit him as a member (not a bad thing in itself), but his option seems to have been to rabbit away on discussion forums like this one, which is a dubious pleasure for most of us.
"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2017, 05:01:45 PM »

-
Interesting that Rutherford ditched the pyramid stuff which Russel had claimed to be a 'second Bible in stone' - whilst doing a rewrite of doctrine to keep Russell's dates - calculated using the non-existant 'pyramid inch' - as his prophexies.
Leaving aside the rubbish surrounding 'Beth Sarim' ('cos ro;lling about laughing at the sheer stupidity of it is hard on the ribs), and the fraudulent mistranslation of their 'bible' - the whole 'disfellowshipping' thing is so anti-Christian that it should be an offence....
We have a lady in our church, who has been a member for nearly forty years....she joined two years after rejecting JW religion and still finding the claim of Christ to be worth pursuing.
In all those four decades, none of her family has contacted her in any way - except a cousin, and she was disciplined by the local Kingdom Hall for doing so.
She only found out about her parents' death by seeing the death notice in the local newsagents; she was even refused access to their funerals.
Whatever their attitude is, Christian it is not.
By the way, in some of their many changes in doctrine over the past century, did you know that they were once perfectly happy with birthdays, voting in elections, serving in the forces, Christmas and the Cross....all of which they now happily condemn?
Flip floppery in its' most glaring form.

Anchorman

"Whatever their attitude is, Christian it is not."

It is indeed appalling, but also begs the question "What is Christian?"  I find it hard to judge, considering as much of the history of Christianity as I do know about. One likes to think of pure altruism, forgiveness and all the rest - which can certainly be traced to some of the sayings of Jesus.
You also like to think it is down to what a person believes and, for instance, have castigated the Gnostics for not being "true Christians". Well, let us consider the behaviour of those latter-day Gnostics, the Cathars in Southern France centuries ago. They for the most part led peaceable, decent lives, until they were exterminated in their last stand on Montsegur in the Albigensian Crusade. The reason for their extermination was their beliefs, which did not accord with those of the Roman Catholic Church. Who were the True Christians here? (Likewise, the Arian Christians, of which only about two Church buildings remain in Europe).

"Kill them all - the Lord will look after his own"

"Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous.”

Le Bon David

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2017, 05:22:57 PM »
The Muslims say he was but what is the Christian consensus (if it's possible to reach one) on this?

Can Jesus be the son of God as well as a prophet?  I do believe there is a scripture which indirectly states that Jesus is the last prophet.

The reason I ask is that a number of American preachers have claimed to have prophesied Donald Trump as God's man in the White House.  This made me wonder that if Jesus was a prophet then what is God doing sending inferior prophets after having sent his son?

Khatru

Don't know if you consider your question to have been answered yet. But I'm  little surprised that you (as a non-believer) should be concerned with the various designations involved within the sects of Christianity, or in those religions that consider Christ to be a figure of 'cosmic' significance. Bit like intruding on private grief.
From the scriptures, it's clear that Jesus is referred to as a prophet - significantly on that Road to Emmaus, before the disciples are supposed to have had revealed to them his greater stature. The disciples speak of Jesus as "a mighty prophet before the people".

St Paul is still referring to 'prophets' in his list of signicant worthies within the early church in his 1st Letter to the Corinthians:

"27] Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
[30] Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
[31] But earnestly desire the higher gifts"
1Corinthians 12

He seems to be referring to some hierarchy here, whilst stressing that everyone is an essential part of the 'body' of the Church.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 05:27:10 PM by Dicky Underpants »
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Re: Was Jesus a prophet?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2017, 05:26:15 PM »
Love; DU. That should be what defines a Christian. Love not only for those fellow believers, but those who don't believe and those who ridicule and condemn those who believe. Care for friend and foe, forgiveness in every situaation. Hey, no-one said it was easy.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."