Author Topic: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)  (Read 42389 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2018, 07:05:57 PM »
Siwa had a strong Berber influence, iirc?

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2018, 07:12:24 PM »
Siwa had a strong Berber influence, iirc?


Given its' location, yes.
After all, the precursors of the Berbers were no strangers to Egypt - thrir kings formed the Egyptian dyn XXII-XXIV, and XXVI-XXX rulers, for the most part.
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2018, 07:19:45 PM »
Siwa had a strong Berber influence, iirc?
May as well shove this in. Any excuse to highlight the discoveries by Montet at Tanis in the 1930's is good enough for me. It's the funerary mask of Sheshonq II - second king of the XXII nd (Lybian) dynasty, part of his burial equipment - one of several completely intact royal burials located under the Temple of Amun at Tanis. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/sheshonqii.htm
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #103 on: April 04, 2018, 07:27:51 PM »
May as well shove this in. Any excuse to highlight the discoveries by Montet at Tanis in the 1930's is good enough for me. It's the funerary mask of Sheshonq II - second king of the XXII nd (Lybian) dynasty, part of his burial equipment - one of several completely intact royal burials located under the Temple of Amun at Tanis. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/sheshonqii.htm


And while we are shoving stuff in, recently caught up with Alastair Sooke's programmes on  iPlayer looking at Egypt as the birth of art. Not sure if you have watched them? Link below.

I think it's an interesting approach but I think is likely that the classical concept of art as he discusses it was the exception and is more about a very specific take and needs challenged overall rather than just pointing at things and going surely that is art.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01mv16n/treasures-of-ancient-egypt-1-the-birth-of-art

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2018, 08:29:22 PM »
And while we are shoving stuff in, recently caught up with Alastair Sooke's programmes on  iPlayer looking at Egypt as the birth of art. Not sure if you have watched them? Link below. I think it's an interesting approach but I think is likely that the classical concept of art as he discusses it was the exception and is more about a very specific take and needs challenged overall rather than just pointing at things and going surely that is art. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01mv16n/treasures-of-ancient-egypt-1-the-birth-of-art
Yes: I think he's putting a personal interpretation on things which don't merit it. The series is worth a look, though. There's a bit in the second episode where he visits Djeser-Djeseru' the mortuary complex of Hatshepsut...and waxes lyrical about a scene in the inner chapel of Hathor. Sine, in actuality, only one or two priests of the female king's mortuary cult would have access to this chapel, it was hrdly public art; and the concept of Hathor tenderly suclking the infant Hatshepsut is more in keeping with Hathor's role as a royal protector and balance against the growing power of the Karnak Amun cult, than any tender scene of affection. Yes, I'm a cynic......
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #105 on: April 04, 2018, 08:45:54 PM »
There is another thread's discussion on what constitutes art, and he's right that certain aspects of it will always be flexible enough to include things that weren't at the time deemed 'art' and at least it allows a view of how quite extraordinary artifacts might be that engages on a different level then look how old and big.

I'm some ways it's the clash between Civilisation and Civilisations on a smaller scale. Art in the end is defined by the observer not the producer.

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2018, 10:14:18 PM »
There is another thread's discussion on what constitutes art, and he's right that certain aspects of it will always be flexible enough to include things that weren't at the time deemed 'art' and at least it allows a view of how quite extraordinary artifacts might be that engages on a different level then look how old and big.

I'm some ways it's the clash between Civilisation and Civilisations on a smaller scale. Art in the end is defined by the observer not the producer.


Then much of the incredible jewellery, masks, coffins, furniture, etc, which so astonish us in their beauty, cant really be defined as art in Egypt, at any rate.
After all, the only 'people' much of these artefacts were designed to please were the 'ka' of the deceased, and the dieties of the underworld.

"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2018, 10:35:50 PM »
I think though that defining things as art by the producer is too restrictive. Obviously Lascaux isn't produced as art in any sense we understand it, but then even allowing for a Greco-Roman sensibility.  Is the Pieta on levels not meant to please a deity in some ways? Art is a slippery concept so perhaps we can restrict ourselves to the idea that beauty, and an attempt to achieve motivated many  Egyptians who created visual images?

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2018, 10:54:04 PM »
I think though that defining things as art by the producer is too restrictive. Obviously Lascaux isn't produced as art in any sense we understand it, but then even allowing for a Greco-Roman sensibility.  Is the Pieta on levels not meant to please a deity in some ways? Art is a slippery concept so perhaps we can restrict ourselves to the idea that beauty, and an attempt to achieve motivated many  Egyptians who created visual images?
I honestly don't know. The one 'artwork' most mention as 'iconic beauty' in connection with Egypt, is the well known bust of Nefertiti found in the remains of the  sculptor Thutmose's workshop at Akhetaten (Amarna) by Borchart. It's on disply in a room of itrs' own in Berlin....and people such as Sigmund Freud, Hitler (yes, Hitler), Dali, Thompson and umpteen others have rhapsodised over its' near perfection and declared it the finest sculpture in the Ancient World.....but....and, there's always a 'but'. Most Egyptologists will tell you that the piece isn't finished - and nowhere near it! It seems to have simply been left on a shelf when the city was abandoned - probably when Nefertiti herself, ruling as Ankhkheperure Neferneferuaten, returned to Thebes at her husband's death. Over time, the shelf collapsed, and the bust, along with several other superb examples of Thumose's work - all unfinished - fell on the floor of the workshop and a sandstorm hid them. What we percieve as flawless beauty wasn't what Thutmose had intended....so which 'art' is correct? Even the statues and obelisks which adorned temples are not what they were meant to be. We see sandstone statues, diorite and granite columns, walls with beautifully inscised scenes....when what we miss is that each surface, column, wall, statue and obelisk was originally painted with a riot of whites, greens, blues, blacks and every other colour as well. Which is art: what we see now or what was once there? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefertiti_Bust
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 10:58:48 PM by Anchorman »
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2018, 11:01:06 PM »
Yep, Jim, I don't know either. And your whole point about what the original looks like applies to the art that we just 'think' of as art. The very things that Sooke is trying to say the creations of the Egyptians fit with would look hugely different when they were produced. I know many people hate much of modern art but Duchamp askedvalud questions about what we mean by art. In the end it doesn't matter much other than as a question of how we understand each other.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 11:08:24 PM by Nearly Sane »

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2018, 09:24:43 AM »
Apologies that this is from the Daily Fail; but here are some spectacular images from the dig at the latest Greco-Roman Temple find. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5582079/Archaeologists-remains-Greco-Roman-temple-Egypt.html?ito=social-facebook
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #111 on: April 12, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
Ancient Egyptian-ish.... Probably the least documented bit of Egyptology...the civilisation south of Aswan. The snycretism of Egyptian and African cultures  left a long lasting impact which lasted into the Christian era - indeed may have shaped the Kingdom of Ethiopia which lasted until the 1970s. Anyway, here's a report from the Meroitic Sedeinga necropolis in what is now Sudan. https://www.livescience.com/62272-oldest-meroe-inscriptions-sudan-africa.html
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #112 on: April 23, 2018, 10:59:47 AM »
You wit for one new discovery, and...... ....well, discoveries at Luxor, Karnak and Aswan turn up. http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/298146.aspx
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2018, 08:45:16 AM »
And some pics from an important "heb-sed" hall founded apparently by Ramesses II, but which appeared to have been used for over a thousand years therafter....and, yes, it's a recent discovery. http://www.egyptindependent.com/photos-egypt-unearths-royal-celebrations-hall-dating-back-to-ramses-era-at-matareya/
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2018, 09:51:45 AM »
The very latest from Saqqara. This one's interesting; a general of the Egyptian army from the time of Seti I and Eamesses II - and a non-Egyptian, to boot. By his name, and the names of those of his family found so far in the tomb, he may have had some Canaanite or Syrian origin...not uncommon in Northern (Lower) Egypt, and many such were involved in the care andtraining of the roal chariot force. https://luxortimesmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/3500-year-old-army-generals-tomb.html#!/2018/05/3500-year-old-army-generals-tomb.html
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #115 on: June 12, 2018, 09:33:43 PM »
To avoid cluttering up another thread, here's last year's report from the south cemetary at Akhetaten (Tel-el-Amarna) which points to the brutal treatment of the workers involved in the construction of the city. It should be pointed out that remains from other sites in Egypt from the same period show no signs of severe overwork - nor, for that matter, child labour. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273293452_Life_death_and_beyond_in_Akhenaten's_Egypt_Excavating_the_South_Tombs_Cemetery_at_Amarna
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #116 on: June 26, 2018, 04:55:35 PM »
Another find. This gets to the guts of the matter - literally.... http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/305454.aspx
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #117 on: June 29, 2018, 08:41:56 PM »
      Not a find in itself, but illustrative of one of the most serious problems in Egyptology - antiquities smuggling. Over the past decade, Egypt has managed to retrieve stolen and smuggled antiquities from not only Israel, but America, Austria, France, Britain, Australia, Brazil and Spain, amongst others. The smuggling trade persists, though. https://eklutdvotyzsri.dailynewssegypt.com/2018/06/25/egypt-retrieves-91-smuggled-antiquities-from-israel/
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2018, 07:51:40 PM »
Just when you think you know everything about the pyramids, someone goes and finds a statue. This one's of Aser - Osiris - and it shouldn't really be there. It seems to have been put in Netjerkhet (Djosser)'s incredible Step Pyramid two thousand years after the thing was built. At the time of Djoser - who built the first pyramid, which, IMHO, is far more impressive than the later Giza examples - Osiris wasn't the main deity of theafterlife. He wouldn't be top of the death pops for another tw centuries or more. https://luxortimesmagazine.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-god-statue-discovered-in-first.html#!/2018/07/the-god-statue-discovered-in-first.html
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2018, 08:38:02 AM »
And there's more... This time from Alexandria. It's all Greek to me. http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/305971.aspx
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #121 on: July 10, 2018, 09:05:31 AM »
What could be an important find at Saqqara - near the fifth dynasty pyramid of Unas, a significant embalmers' workshop - a very, very rare find - and a cache of mummies and funerary equipment. From what the article says, I suspect that this find dates to a much later period - probably around 1200-800 BC or so, though the details of the find haven't been published. Still, pretty important,. http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/306535.aspx
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #122 on: July 11, 2018, 02:48:36 PM »
Anyone lost a city? 'Cos they've just found one..... It's all Greek to me. http://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4/53696/Ancient-city-dating-back-to-Greco-Roman-era-uncovered-in
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Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #123 on: July 14, 2018, 12:59:14 PM »
A link to the latest finds from Saqqara - a mumification worksop, over thirty mummies, a gilded mask and much more - dating from the Saite period - from approx 664 Bc....for those of you Biblically inclined, just after the time of Senaccharib, when Egyptian kings employed Jewish mercenaries in the south of Egypt. The pics here are very interesting, and may ge pretty significant. http://luxortimesmagazine.blogspot.com/#!/2018/07/new-discovery-mummification-workshop.html
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: More finds from Egypt (Where else?)
« Reply #124 on: July 17, 2018, 04:14:07 PM »
Some of the latest pics from the Saqqara finf ; https://www.history.com/news/ancient-egypt-mummies-discovery
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."